Canada "too small" to develop Northwest Passage shipping, diplomat says

Started by jimmy olsen, August 14, 2011, 06:51:18 AM

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Neil

Canada would be silly to develop the NW passage.  It would take a hundred years of transit fees just to pay off the infrastructure upgrades that it would take, given that the land is current a wasteland inhabited only by criminals and soldiers.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Neil

Quote from: Siege on August 15, 2011, 04:06:57 PM
What's that?
A picture from the Moon hoax?
Hoax?  Flat earth?

This is how we know you're an Arab, Siege, with all those conspiracy theories.  Jews are creatures of science and logic.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Tonitrus

[timmah]We should just run maglev trains through underwater tubes across the ocean floor! [/timmah]

Berkut

Quote from: Viking on August 15, 2011, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2011, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 15, 2011, 03:16:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2011, 03:10:41 PM
When did people think the Earth was pear shaped?

When GPS satellites showed us that the southern hemisphere is a few meters fatter than the northern hemisphere. It has something to do with the southern hemisphere having more ocean.

I'm not sure that's really the shape of a pear.  I've seen photos of both pears and the Earth.  They really aren't that similar.

Nothing's really shaped like the earth.. since fruit is the usual comparison the pear comparison explains the variation well though.. but then again, the earth was never shaped like an orange when we thought it was shaped like an orange.

WTF are you going on about?

The earth is an oblate spheroid, it is larger around the equator than around the poles.

It is not shaped like a pear.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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crazy canuck

Quote from: Josephus on August 15, 2011, 06:29:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2011, 03:10:41 PM
When did people think the Earth was pear shaped?

For a very short period of time. Between Jan 12, 1390 and Jan 14, 1390 the pear-shapers were all the rage.

There are still demonstrations that pop up now and again advocating for the Pear over the Orange.  Recently violence broke out at one such demonstration when some pancake flatlanders tried to suggest they were right.

Razgovory

Maybe pears have different shapes in Iceland then they do in America.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Viking

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_the_Earth

QuoteMore complicated figures

The possibility that the Earth's equator is an ellipse rather than a circle and therefore that the ellipsoid is triaxial has been a matter of scientific controversy for many years. Modern technological developments have furnished new and rapid methods for data collection and since the launch of Sputnik 1, orbital data have been used to investigate the theory of ellipticity.

A second theory, more complicated than triaxiality, proposed that observed long periodic orbital variations of the first Earth satellites indicate an additional depression at the south pole accompanied by a bulge of the same degree at the north pole. It is also contended that the northern middle latitudes were slightly flattened and the southern middle latitudes bulged in a similar amount. This concept suggested a slightly pear-shaped Earth and was the subject of much public discussion. Modern geodesy tends to retain the ellipsoid of revolution and treat triaxiality and pear shape as a part of the geoid figure: they are represented by the spherical harmonic coefficients C22,S22 and C30, respectively, corresponding to degree and order numbers 2.2 for the triaxiality and 3.0 for the pear shape.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

HVC

If scientists can't even figure out what shape the earth is how can the predict the weather?



:P
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

garbon

Quote from: HVC on August 16, 2011, 11:37:03 AM
If scientists can't even figure out what shape the earth is how can the predict the weather?



:P

:hmm:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Viking

Quote from: HVC on August 16, 2011, 11:37:03 AM
If scientists can't even figure out what shape the earth is how can the predict the weather?



:P

:frusty:
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Berkut

Quote from: Viking on August 16, 2011, 11:00:15 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_the_Earth

QuoteMore complicated figures

The possibility that the Earth's equator is an ellipse rather than a circle and therefore that the ellipsoid is triaxial has been a matter of scientific controversy for many years. Modern technological developments have furnished new and rapid methods for data collection and since the launch of Sputnik 1, orbital data have been used to investigate the theory of ellipticity.

A second theory, more complicated than triaxiality, proposed that observed long periodic orbital variations of the first Earth satellites indicate an additional depression at the south pole accompanied by a bulge of the same degree at the north pole. It is also contended that the northern middle latitudes were slightly flattened and the southern middle latitudes bulged in a similar amount. This concept suggested a slightly pear-shaped Earth and was the subject of much public discussion. Modern geodesy tends to retain the ellipsoid of revolution and treat triaxiality and pear shape as a part of the geoid figure: they are represented by the spherical harmonic coefficients C22,S22 and C30, respectively, corresponding to degree and order numbers 2.2 for the triaxiality and 3.0 for the pear shape.

You should read more carefully. The article is stating that there is a theory that orbital irregularities could be explained by slight bulging of the earth in the northern hemisphere. That doesn't mean the earth itself is shaped like a pear - there is no question that it is a oblate spheroid (after all, they have measured with great precision the circumfrence around the equator and through the poles - the equator is 43km longer, which is vastly more significant than the theorized depression/bulging). Saying it is "slightly pear-shaped" is simple a way of describing the depression/bulge - not an attempt to suggest that the earth itself is shaped like a pear. Unless is was a pear that was larger around the middle than either end.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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grumbler

Quote from: Berkut on August 16, 2011, 11:59:51 AM
You should read more carefully. The article is stating that there is a theory that orbital irregularities could be explained by slight bulging of the earth in the northern hemisphere. That doesn't mean the earth itself is shaped like a pear - there is no question that it is a oblate spheroid (after all, they have measured with great precision the circumfrence around the equator and through the poles - the equator is 43km longer, which is vastly more significant than the theorized depression/bulging). Saying it is "slightly pear-shaped" is simple a way of describing the depression/bulge - not an attempt to suggest that the earth itself is shaped like a pear. Unless is was a pear that was larger around the middle than either end.
Do you actually have so much lifespan to waste that you can spend some "debating" with Viking?

I find it better, as well as more amusing, to allow Viking and Raz to "debate" uninterrupted in a thread while the rest of us enjoy relatively Viking-and-Raz-free threads elsewhere.  :bowler:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

viper37

Quote from: Neil on August 15, 2011, 06:58:58 PM
Canada would be silly to develop the NW passage.  It would take a hundred years of transit fees just to pay off the infrastructure upgrades that it would take, given that the land is current a wasteland inhabited only by criminals and soldiers.
on the other hand, if we don't develop it, we will have problems as traffic increase.

I believe Harper had plans for a deep sea port in the North.  So has Quebec, though theoritically, the ports would be built in foreign waters when the tide lowers.

I think we need to occupy the spaces as they are rich in natural resources and it will be the only way to control access.  It's not a question of choice.
But it shouldn't concern you, afaik, you were against Kyoto and unconvinced of that whole global waming thing, so, really, there should be no NW passage.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Viking

Quote from: Berkut on August 16, 2011, 11:59:51 AM
Quote from: Viking on August 16, 2011, 11:00:15 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_the_Earth

QuoteMore complicated figures

The possibility that the Earth's equator is an ellipse rather than a circle and therefore that the ellipsoid is triaxial has been a matter of scientific controversy for many years. Modern technological developments have furnished new and rapid methods for data collection and since the launch of Sputnik 1, orbital data have been used to investigate the theory of ellipticity.

A second theory, more complicated than triaxiality, proposed that observed long periodic orbital variations of the first Earth satellites indicate an additional depression at the south pole accompanied by a bulge of the same degree at the north pole. It is also contended that the northern middle latitudes were slightly flattened and the southern middle latitudes bulged in a similar amount. This concept suggested a slightly pear-shaped Earth and was the subject of much public discussion. Modern geodesy tends to retain the ellipsoid of revolution and treat triaxiality and pear shape as a part of the geoid figure: they are represented by the spherical harmonic coefficients C22,S22 and C30, respectively, corresponding to degree and order numbers 2.2 for the triaxiality and 3.0 for the pear shape.

You should read more carefully. The article is stating that there is a theory that orbital irregularities could be explained by slight bulging of the earth in the northern hemisphere. That doesn't mean the earth itself is shaped like a pear - there is no question that it is a oblate spheroid (after all, they have measured with great precision the circumfrence around the equator and through the poles - the equator is 43km longer, which is vastly more significant than the theorized depression/bulging). Saying it is "slightly pear-shaped" is simple a way of describing the depression/bulge - not an attempt to suggest that the earth itself is shaped like a pear. Unless is was a pear that was larger around the middle than either end.

Yes, that is what I was trying to say. When accounting for mountains and other geological features the southern hemisphere is slightly larger than the northern by two or fewer meters in radius. Ultimately the earth doesn't have a shape, it is earth shaped and get a new shape when I dig a hole in my back yard. Calling the earth an oblate spheroid is not correct, though it is a very close approximation. Given the tradition of comparing the shape of the earth to food (pancakes and oranges) the pear fits best in explaining the nature of the shape of the earth. Ultimately the only true description of the shape of the earth is a monstrously long 3 column (angle, azimuth and distance) matrix which changes every single second.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.