WTF is wrong with Germany?!

[grumbler]

LOL LETS FUCK UP EVERYBODY'S LIFE COZ WE CAN LULZ.

LOLZ  LET'S MAKE UP STRAWMEN COS WE CAN LOLZ

[grumbler]

Stop. Wasting. Perfectly. Good. Water.

I don't think the water being "wasted" is the strongest argument against fracking.  The negative externalities are the better arguments.

[Zanza]

So? Zanza1 posted a nice picture of a considerable area around a reactor (in this case a carbon oxidizing reactor) that will be uninhabitable for decades. I know that each year we witness a disaster from coal waste products ten times larger than all accidents in all nuclear power plants so far in history.

Definitely.

I am actually ambivalent regarding nuclear power. I don't think it is particularly risky in Germany, but I am also not convinced that it is really that cheap and there is the unsolved question of nuclear waste. It's huge benefit is of course that it is free of CO2. But it is a hard sell for a politician to convince people to build a nuclear powerplant in their backyard or perhaps some island in the South Pacific ceases to exist in 50 years...

Furthermore, there is a considerable political cost to this debate in Germany by now. It creates deep polarization in the population, which is against our consensus-based model. And the whole debate immensely benefits the Green party, which I dislike for a variety of policies they promote. So once the nuclear question is no longer contentious, other topics decide elections again and I hope that saner parties than the Greens will get elected then. So I hope this silly debate is over soon.

[Ed Anger]

Your have a cheap power source next door. Burn the Poles. That should last y'all a decade or two.

[Iormlund]

So? Zanza1 posted a nice picture of a considerable area around a reactor (in this case a carbon oxidizing reactor) that will be uninhabitable for decades. I know that each year we witness a disaster from coal waste products ten times larger than all accidents in all nuclear power plants so far in history.

Definitely.

I am actually ambivalent regarding nuclear power. I don't think it is particularly risky in Germany, but I am also not convinced that it is really that cheap and there is the unsolved question of nuclear waste. It's huge benefit is of course that it is free of CO2.

Price, energy independence or low CO2 emissions are not even the best reasons to go nuclear: on a death per Kwh basis, it outclasses anything else by orders of magnitude, solar and wind included. It is just as simple as that.

[garbon]

Personally, I have a moral feeling over letting the victims of various gruesome diseases and forms of cancer suffer because we won't touch embryos who would not even come to existence if not for this research.

I would take any opposers of stem cell research to say it to the face of someone with a probably cure-able but presently horrendous condition that he/she and his/her brethren with the same problem are much less important than never-born embryos.

Weak argument, but okay.

[Zanza]

Price, energy independence or low CO2 emissions are not even the best reasons to go nuclear: on a death per Kwh basis, it outclasses anything else by orders of magnitude, solar and wind included. It is just as simple as that.

Maybe, but this is not about a rational arguments anymore, but rather about risk perception among the general population. There is the statistically very small risk of extreme amounts of deaths from a nuclear accident and radiation is creepy because you can't see or feel it, so the technology is considered unsafe.

No one cares for wind generator technicians falling off the windmills as most people aren't windmill technicians, so they can assume their personal risk is zero. Not so with the nuclear plant 30 km away.
People getting health problems from particles from burning coal is actually a better comparison. It has many of the same qualities as nuclear radiation, but it kills people so slowly that no one cares for that either.

[The Brain]

Germans are stupid as a people. Everything always comes back to this.

[Zanza]

Germans are stupid as a people. Everything always comes back to this.

At least we were able to sell three of the nuclear powerplants to the Swedish government before deciding to shut them down. 

[Bluebook]

Haven't the Germans always had a bit more of an issue with nuclear than most Euros?  My impression is that they've had one of the earliest and strongest anti-nuclear movements for decades.

It goes well with the "we're pussies now, look, we're not scary no more" persona.

Personally I think its more a collective subconcious realization that the Hiroshima bomb really was destined for Berlin, and only the quick and timely surrender of Germany saved them from that fate. Apparently that has created an irrational fear of everything nuclear.

It might sound far-fetched, but it is alot more logical than the official reasons given.

[Admiral Yi]

Price, energy independence or low CO2 emissions are not even the best reasons to go nuclear: on a death per Kwh basis, it outclasses anything else by orders of magnitude, solar and wind included. It is just as simple as that.

I know wind turbines kill the hell out of birds, but when has a human ever been killed by solar or wind?

[CountDeMoney]

Price, energy independence or low CO2 emissions are not even the best reasons to go nuclear: on a death per Kwh basis, it outclasses anything else by orders of magnitude, solar and wind included. It is just as simple as that.

I know wind turbines kill the hell out of birds, but when has a human ever been killed by solar or wind?

George Hamilton is proof it doesn't.

[Neil]

Haven't the Germans always had a bit more of an issue with nuclear than most Euros?  My impression is that they've had one of the earliest and strongest anti-nuclear movements for decades.

It goes well with the "we're pussies now, look, we're not scary no more" persona.

Personally I think its more a collective subconcious realization that the Hiroshima bomb really was destined for Berlin, and only the quick and timely surrender of Germany saved them from that fate. Apparently that has created an irrational fear of everything nuclear.

It might sound far-fetched, but it is alot more logical than the official reasons given.

But that's not true.  Even in Germany had managed to hold out some kind of guerilla resistance until August (unlikely), it would have been a waste of an atom bomb, seeing as Germany wouldn't control any urban centres anymore.

[Bluebook]

But that's not true.  Even in Germany had managed to hold out some kind of guerilla resistance until August (unlikely), it would have been a waste of an atom bomb, seeing as Germany wouldn't control any urban centres anymore.

I was more thinking about a scenario where Germany was still a viable enemy. Like if D-day failed, or the Ardennes offensive managed to recapture Antwerp or whatever. Oh, and the russians must have been halted somewhere in the east too.

[Iormlund]

Price, energy independence or low CO2 emissions are not even the best reasons to go nuclear: on a death per Kwh basis, it outclasses anything else by orders of magnitude, solar and wind included. It is just as simple as that.

I know wind turbines kill the hell out of birds, but when has a human ever been killed by solar or wind?

Heavy loads landing on someone, falls from significant heights, plenty of high voltage equipment around, motor accidents on crappy rural paths, natural disasters ...

I know of at least 2 mortal work-related accidents - fall and electrocution - and a couple near misses - you don't want to be anywhere near a solar power plant when a tornado hits and 9-ton structures are flying around.

Now take into account that the production of all the plants I've worked on combined during their 20 to 25 year life will be dwarfed by that of a single reactor and that's how solar or wind end up being more dangerous.