[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

I think that it'd be good to see the BQ as a formal part of a governing coalition one day; I don't think perpetual oppositionhood is a good thing.

Seems unlikely for quite a while, though, from both sides.

Imo, the BQ is pose for a change when Duceppe finnally leaves to go lead the provincial PQ.

Or retire I suppose.  He has been at this a long time in Politician Years.

[Drakken]

I think that it'd be good to see the BQ as a formal part of a governing coalition one day; I don't think perpetual oppositionhood is a good thing.

Seems unlikely for quite a while, though, from both sides.

Quite unlikely as it would defeat the purpose of the BQ: safeguarding whining about Quebec's "interests" and being as much as pain in the ass to the federal government as possible. They only continue to exist because we lost the referendum and to keep the Quebec ridings away from either Lib or Con patsies.

That is why the coalition was carefully drawn so that the BQ would only "not interfere" with the coalition and give support, rather than be a integral part of it. Otherwise, the separatists would scream that they are selling out to the federalists.

[crazy canuck]

Oh man the NDP are already crumbling.

Jack Layton was all confidence and bravado after learning that one of his candidates in London, Ont., had made to strategic decision to drop out of the race and support the Liberals.

Ryan Dolby, who was running for the NDP in Elgin-Middlesex-London but now supports Liberal Graham Warwick, announced his decision Wednesday morning saying a vote for Michael Ignatieff's party was the best way to prevent the Conservatives and Stephen Harper from winning majority.

It will be interesting how this plays out.  On the one hand the Liberals will benefit from gaining NDP voters.  But nation wide how will this play to the coalition issues we have been discussing - to what extent will voters want a Liberal party that is pulled to the left in this way?

[Jacob]

Does not change how I feel about it. I didn't want our almost yearly elections to happen again. Even if Harper gets a majority, I don't think Canada will be any less fractious afterwards, likely more polarized. the blood Soaked anti-Iggy ads alone should stop anyone with a brain from voting Con. Childish and lamer than lame. makes us far too American in our politicking- only real issue is negative- Iggy's an asshole? likely. But likely so is Harper. And Layton.

I want to see one ad from any of the parties taht's actually about issues instead of bashing people running. Vote for me because the other guy is a jerk doesn't cut it for me.

Well, apparently Ignatief has been unveiling policy planks and more are coming. Harper has said there's no new plans or promises after the income-splitting one. Layton's been putting out some proposals too.

The most recent stuff (quoting from elsewhere, so no guarantee it's 100% accurate):

The plan: open a RESP account for a child under the age of 18, when they attend post-secondary education (university, community college, trade school, etc) the government will put $1000 ($1500 for low-income students) into the account each year for 4 years.

How will it work: the infrastructure for the RESPs is already in place as is the method of verifying if the child is registered in a post-sec institution.

Where is the money coming from: the Liberals say they intend to close two tax credit programs aimed at students which combined cost $425M - the remainder of the monies will come from increasing the corporate tax rate 1.5%.

The plan: make the code of conduct for credit companies implemented by the Conservatives into a law (it is currently voluntary with no enforcement), legally cap credit card interest rates at 5%+prime interest rate.

How do they intend to do it: regulation.

Where is the money coming from: no actual monies from the federal government, some minor increase in monitoring and enforcement of banking regulatory bodies to cover increased mandate.

[Jacob]

It will be interesting how this plays out.  On the one hand the Liberals will benefit from gaining NDP voters.  But nation wide how will this play to the coalition issues we have been discussing - to what extent will voters want a Liberal party that is pulled to the left in this way?

I think that's a bit disingenuous; there's no evidence that the Liberal Party is going to be pulled leftwards by NDPers voting strategically anti-Harper.

It'd be reasonable to expect a leftwards tilt of the Liberal Party, or at least of their policies, if they have to compromise with the NDP to form a coaltion, or if the try to compete hard for the centre-left and left votes against the NDP. But if the NDP just folds and says "rather the Liberals than the Conservatives" then I don't see how a leftward policy shift would follow at all.

[Jacob]

Oh and, apparently it looks like May is going to be excluded from the debates.

[Malthus]

Does not change how I feel about it. I didn't want our almost yearly elections to happen again. Even if Harper gets a majority, I don't think Canada will be any less fractious afterwards, likely more polarized. the blood Soaked anti-Iggy ads alone should stop anyone with a brain from voting Con. Childish and lamer than lame. makes us far too American in our politicking- only real issue is negative- Iggy's an asshole? likely. But likely so is Harper. And Layton.

I want to see one ad from any of the parties taht's actually about issues instead of bashing people running. Vote for me because the other guy is a jerk doesn't cut it for me.

Well, apparently Ignatief has been unveiling policy planks and more are coming. Harper has said there's no new plans or promises after the income-splitting one. Layton's been putting out some proposals too.

The most recent stuff (quoting from elsewhere, so no guarantee it's 100% accurate):

The plan: open a RESP account for a child under the age of 18, when they attend post-secondary education (university, community college, trade school, etc) the government will put $1000 ($1500 for low-income students) into the account each year for 4 years.

How will it work: the infrastructure for the RESPs is already in place as is the method of verifying if the child is registered in a post-sec institution.

Where is the money coming from: the Liberals say they intend to close two tax credit programs aimed at students which combined cost $425M - the remainder of the monies will come from increasing the corporate tax rate 1.5%.

The plan: make the code of conduct for credit companies implemented by the Conservatives into a law (it is currently voluntary with no enforcement), legally cap credit card interest rates at 5%+prime interest rate.

How do they intend to do it: regulation.

Where is the money coming from: no actual monies from the federal government, some minor increase in monitoring and enforcement of banking regulatory bodies to cover increased mandate.

Thing is, these sorts of proposals - an educational credit, making a code of conduct on credit cards mandatory - are the small change of politics. One can see literally any party announcing such things.  Where are the differences in vision, in political direction, on the vision of society?

No-one really wants an election to be about whether the RESP should have a $1000 top-up or not. 

[Admiral Yi]

It seems to me in the Conservatives best interest to pin Ignatieff down as much as possible on coalition/no coalition.

[crazy canuck]

I think that's a bit disingenuous; there's no evidence that the Liberal Party is going to be pulled leftwards by NDPers voting strategically anti-Harper.

Look who is being disingenous....

this isnt mere strategic voting.  This is someone who was nominated to run for Parliament as an NDP candidate endorsing the Liberals.

[crazy canuck]

Thing is, these sorts of proposals - an educational credit, making a code of conduct on credit cards mandatory - are the small change of politics. One can see literally any party announcing such things.  Where are the differences in vision, in political direction, on the vision of society?

No-one really wants an election to be about whether the RESP should have a $1000 top-up or not.

One thing it does show is the economic incompetence of the NDP.  I wonder if they ever thought of the consequences if their policy was ever but into law.

Like Banks to denying credit cards to the very people the NDP policy is aimed at "helping" or that banks might pass on more of the costs to merchants who would then have to raise prices so that products for the very people the NDP are trying to "help" become less affordable.

[Jacob]

No-one really wants an election to be about whether the RESP should have a $1000 top-up or not.

You don't think that is an absolutely vital issue?

That said, I don't think we can really blame the politicians for this; it's Canadian voters who have created the situation and will potentially recreate it.

[Grey Fox]

Yes but Credit card reform of the consequences you tell CC will happen anyway.

[Jacob]

It seems to me in the Conservatives best interest to pin Ignatieff down as much as possible on coalition/no coalition.

Well, he's already on record as saying "no" I believe; but yeah, no reason for them not to go on about it.

[viper37]

Thing is, these sorts of proposals - an educational credit, making a code of conduct on credit cards mandatory - are the small change of politics. One can see literally any party announcing such things.  Where are the differences in vision, in political direction, on the vision of society?

No-one really wants an election to be about whether the RESP should have a $1000 top-up or not. 

The educational credit is a direct intervention in the provinces responsibilities.  Only the Libs and NDP would do that.

Capping the interest rate is something the BQ or the NPD could come with, given how retarded this is.
It will simply penalize all consumers and non endebted credit card holders.

So, a company loans you a maximum of, say, 5000$, of wich they only ask that you repay 3-5% every month over as long as you wish.  They often give you some points stuff you can spend on anything (cash refund, airmiles, aeroplan, etc) from a night at the movies to a week-long trip in Hawaii.

Let's say they ain't allowed to charge sufficient interest to payers who are likely to default.  How will they react?
Well, first, there will be less credit cards out there.  People with below average income are most likely to be denied.  I grant you that some companies are fucking silly offering 50 000$ credit limit to people winning less than this in a year, but capping interest simply screws the honest little guy.

Next, what happens?  All these cash rebates, Airmiles, Aeroplan, gone, but possibly not the day after the NDP forms a new coallition.  See Tertio for "why".

Tertio you ask?  Well, since the amount they charge to businesses accepting credit cards is pretty much unregulated and unlikely to be in the near future (class action suit, could take years before this reaches the Supreme Court and they get a clear judgement), they're gonna milk these companies.  How will they react?  Either by refusing credit card altogether or increasing their prices.

Who gets screwed here?  Who has really benefited but the minority of people who spends to much money on silly things like clothes and furnitures?

No way I'm paying for frivolous people.  if they're too dumb to realize they live above their means, they are not my problems.

Forcing the credit card companies to restrict the credit limit they offer to their consumers, I'm all for.  Heck, I must have at least 10k$ on all my cards, save for one I have asked to be limited at 500$.  I'm pretty sure I could survive with half of that...

Preventing credit card companies from forcing businesses to accept all their cards or none, I'm all for it too.

But screwing us with a cap on interest rate, especially such a low cap?  Silly beyond beliefs.

[Grey Fox]

Cash rebated, airmiles, aeroplan, etc won't go anywhere. Those thing are a gold mine of consumer information. You think they are going to give that up?



Not that I agree with the NDP on their proposition but I dont think forcing them to have a lower interest rate would force anything but make the issuers atleast look before issuing a credit card.