Why Were the Greeks So Clever?

[Warspite]

The question is, were they clever because they were Greeks, or were they Greeks because they were clever?

[Ed Anger]

The question is, were they clever because they were Greeks, or were they Greeks because they were clever?

its all greek to me.

[Jaron]

The Greeks considered butter barbaric and disgusting. They weren't that clever afterall.

[Razgovory]

Short and simple but serious answer: long coastline and scarcity of natural resources and arable land.

Compare this to Egypt and draw your own conclusions.

Which is why Finland is a world power today.

[Valmy]

Which is why Finland is a world power today.

I knew the success of Nokia had to be explained somehow.

[garbon]

Wow!  That's quite a bit of extrapolation based on a single case and a shitload of assumptions about what an absence of evidence implies! 

That's Jared Diamond in a nutshell.

[Razgovory]

Wow!  That's quite a bit of extrapolation based on a single case and a shitload of assumptions about what an absence of evidence implies! 

That's Jared Diamond in a nutshell.  He should've stuck to birdwatching.

I hate to say this, but I kind of agree with you.

[Jaron]

Jared Diamond is brilliant.

[Viking]

Why were the greeks different? I think it is because of how they were ruled. They were basically ruled by themselves. And by themselves I mean the part of the army that made winning battles possible, the hoplites. I'd not use the Myceneans as comparisons or even consider them relevant. The greek dark age killed their empire off and left greece barbaric for 700 years. I think the secret is in the dark age, it seems the only things the Myceneans really left was their language preserved through Homer and Hesiod. The language of Linear B survives and becomes greek, while they steal phonecian writing. The language is kept through the epic poetry and the values of Homer become the values of greece. Add that to the greek military system where the decisive branch was not a super elite charioteer, but rather a heavy infantryman. To reach the top of their society all you really needed was to afford armour and arms. Add to that nature of the greek countryside where small towns or large villages were the norm, rather than a large city dominating all the land for weeks around then you get a society where the most successful social organisation is one of small towns ruled by the men who fight and die for them. The polis allows for the successful cooperation of individuals for a common cause. Every other society needed a god-king to get the locals to dig a canal or build a temple. The polis allowed the local men to get together and agree, hey we need a temple, let's build one. They didn't need great architecture such as city walls (the battles were decisive in the field) they didn't need canals (they either didn't really have rivers or the narrow valley they lived in meant they were already next to it) etc.etc. I think this is one of the reasons there are so few archeological remains from the greek dark age. A social structure that didn't need stone and therefore didn't use it was emerging.

The polis and the citizen, that's what made the Greeks so clever. 

It's the Ideas that matter. Just remember, once Classical Greek culture had been wiped from Greece by the Goths, Slavs, Bulgars and Ottomans the country reverted to the festering shit hole it had always been.

[Jaron]

Someones romanticizing.

[Eddie Teach]

Someones romanticizing.

is it: Jaron? 

[Valmy]

Someones romanticizing.

Everybody knows Greece was just a prelude to: Ottoman Empire.

[Jaron]

Greeks->Romans->Byzantines->Ottomans->Armenians->Psellus->Obama->USA

[Eddie Teach]

Greeks->Romans->Byzantines->Ottomans->Armenians->Psellus->Obama->USA

Obama is the Dawn?

[garbon]

One day people will look back and ask "What were Americans so amazing?"

Hopefully, they'll discover the correct answer: "God."