2024 US Presidential Elections Megathread

[Valmy]

Important take away is Trump said Israel needs to finish the job. I am looking forward to all the Muslim extremists who have been chanting antisemitic shit here in the U.S. finding out what happens when Trump gives Netanyahu a green light to do whatever is necessary in Gaza day 1 of his Presidency.

Since this apparently the only issue that matters at all in the entire United States and the world to you, I am glad you will at least be happy.

[grumbler]

Important take away is Trump said Israel needs to finish the job. I am looking forward to all the Muslim extremists who have been chanting antisemitic shit here in the U.S. finding out what happens when Trump gives Netanyahu a green light to do whatever is necessary in Gaza day 1 of his Presidency.

If Netanyahu is still dragging this out by January 20 2025, he won't be PM of Israel.

[Valmy]

Maybe we should do like a 19th century DNC. Release all the delegates and have like 38 ballots and pull some rando out of obscurity to be President.

"America, we present you Franklin Pierce!"

"Who?"

[Oexmelin]

My usual reminder to get involved heavily in activism and campaigning.

This may involve calling repeatedly your local democrats to have Biden replaced as the candidate.

This may also involve preparing for the likely outcome of Trump being elected. It's not going to be pretty. You will need all the bulwarks you can get.

[Oexmelin]

My usual reminder to get involved heavily in activism and campaigning.

This may involve calling repeatedly your local democrats to have Biden replaced as the candidate.

This may also involve preparing for the likely outcome of Trump being elected. It's not going to be pretty. You will need all the bulwarks you can get.

You can't afford to treat politics as a spectator sport.

[Barrister]

Was it really as bad as all that?

I was looking on Twitter - it sounded pretty bad.

[The Minsky Moment]

Was it really as bad as all that?

I was looking on Twitter - it sounded pretty bad.

It wasn't all bad.  He lost the debate to Trump but I think he beat Medicare.

[Sheilbh]

Only seen the comments and generally I don't really think debates matter very much - but feels like this one might.

[Valmy]

Only seen the comments and generally I don't really think debates matter very much - but feels like this one might.

They matter a lot but for stupid reasons. Vibes mostly.

Bidens vibes were horrendous hence this was very bad.

[Barrister]

So again _ I did not watch the debate.

But then most people don't.  The perception of who won seems to matter more then the actual performance itself.  Which is why in most years both parties flood the zone with spin doctors trying to convince everyone their guy "won".

[OttoVonBismarck]

Debates matter somewhat, but they tend to only have a transient impact on polling. I think with such hard partisan fault lines a majority of voters simply aren't going to change their preference over any debate, no matter what is said.

As someone who isn't pulling for Biden, I think he lost but it doesn't change my overall assessment on the election--basically too close to call with a lot of contradictory polling indicators.

The fact that Biden lost the debate, actually means it being an early one (June is early for a general election debate) helps--lot of time to smooth over the effects of it. It does mean Joe is going to need to be coached--and capable of being coached, on the areas of weakness he showed. The format of these debates, since they don't have the typical Committee debate moderators who have a more interjectory role, favors Trump's typical debating strategy. The Biden team should have had him better prepared--or it is possible he simply lacks the physical or mental ability to take heed of what his team was telling him in prep.

[OttoVonBismarck]

My assessment as to why Trump won:
1. He spewed a ton of nonsense and came off un-Presidential. However, he has never been Presidential. And he spewed nonsense with vigor and force, which matters far more to most low information voters than anything else.

2. Biden had several times where he said something confusing / off, and had a hoarse voice and poor stage presence, both very bad things in a televised debate.

From a meta level, Trump mostly lied and said fake things, and when Biden landed points he was actually landing on real fuck ups of Trump / bad policy weaknesses of the GOP. It is one of those things where if the arguments were submitted in written form, Biden would likely have won just because almost all of Trump's points were nonsensical lies. But it was done verbally, so Biden looked weak, and Biden's meandering and losing the topic, while only for a part of the debate vs Trump's lie fest was for 100% of the debate, hurts Biden a lot more than Trump just lying his ass off--most people expect Trump to lie and don't care that he does.

Neither man is really fit to be President, but when one side is being taken over by actual Muslim terror groups the choice is clear regardless of any debate.

[DGuller]

If the conclusion comes to be that Biden really is unfit to run for another term, then I think questions have to be asked about the groupthink on the left about this issue.  I haven't been following the political media for years, but from what I did glimpse occasionally, it did seem like almost everyone on the left-leaning media was trying to sell us this story that Joe just misspeaks in public from time to time, like all people do, and like Joe always did.  "If you watch him in private, you'll see that he often manages to complete a coherent sentence, and he always successfully makes use of the toilet when he needs to take care of business."

Suppressing critical discussion doesn't make the issue go away, it just it blow up on you with much more force later, at a more inconvenient time.

[Oexmelin]

I don't know where that groupthink existed, but nowhere in the leftist circles I was in.

[Barrister]

My assessment as to why Trump won:
1. He spewed a ton of nonsense and came off un-Presidential. However, he has never been Presidential. And he spewed nonsense with vigor and force, which matters far more to most low information voters than anything else.

2. Biden had several times where he said something confusing / off, and had a hoarse voice and poor stage presence, both very bad things in a televised debate.

From a meta level, Trump mostly lied and said fake things, and when Biden landed points he was actually landing on real fuck ups of Trump / bad policy weaknesses of the GOP. It is one of those things where if the arguments were submitted in written form, Biden would likely have won just because almost all of Trump's points were nonsensical lies. But it was done verbally, so Biden looked weak, and Biden's meandering and losing the topic, while only for a part of the debate vs Trump's lie fest was for 100% of the debate, hurts Biden a lot more than Trump just lying his ass off--most people expect Trump to lie and don't care that he does.

Neither man is really fit to be President, but when one side is being taken over by actual Muslim terror groups the choice is clear regardless of any debate.

I have no idea why given all of your assessments you wind up on a pro-Trump viewpoint.

even given your anti-Islam viewpoint, Trump is far more in the pocket of the Saudis.