Attack in Nice on July 14th

[Tamas]

The Muslim council of Britain has a fine sense of priorities :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36900310

I srsly hope they also bothered complaining and tweeting about these recent attacks.

[Valmy]

Sure. What I'm saying us that the same applied to slavery in the Christian world. Islam and Christianity were alike in having slavery that sucked horribly.

Where they differed, is that the Islamic world *also* had this other form of slavery that did *not* exist in the Christian world. To my knowledge, no Christian kingdom had its warrior aristocracy composed of slaves.

Yeah but that other form of slavery was a bug and not a feature.

[Archy]

Yeah but they're the highest in MENA and France and Belgium the highest in Europe. Of the 5 largest relative numbers of foreign fighters, 4 are Francophone.

It's striking that it's more predictive than demographic factors or things like unemployment or urbanisation (which both also correlate).

Seems Flemish nationalists are right in fighting the francophones if only the rest of the world would join them and not be sidetracked by this Islam thingy

[Duque de Bragança]

Yeah but they're the highest in MENA and France and Belgium the highest in Europe. Of the 5 largest relative numbers of foreign fighters, 4 are Francophone.

When you hear them speaking, they do not sound like native Francophone speakers, despite being born and having lived in France or francophone Belgium. Besides, Belgium also has its jihadi "Flemish" nutcases cf. Sharia4Belgium.

[Archy]

I'm now awaiting statements of IRA and ETA.

Corsican militants warn 'Islamist radicals' over attacks
A militant splinter group on the French island of Corsica has warned Islamist extremists that they would respond to any attack that took place on the island.

In a statement sent to Corsica's newspaper Corse Matin the group FLNC October 22, a splinter group from the main separatist group the National Liberation Front of Corsica (FLNC), said any attack would trigger "a determined response without any qualms".

The splinter group also warned the French government that "if a tragedy were to happen it would bare substantial share of responsibility because it knows who the radicals Islamists are in Corsica."

"The aim of the Salafists is clearly to install Isis policies here and we are prepared for it," the group said.

The militants, which have been involved in bombings and organised crime over the years, also stated that they had foiled a terrorist attack on the island back in June, that was planned to have been carried out in a public place.

The French government, which has revealed details of several foiled plots in the past, has never mentioned any thwarted plan to attack the Mediterranean Island.

The October 22 splinter group announced in May this year it would bring an end to its 40-year armed struggle, two years after the main FLNC group vowed to do the same.

The statement from the FLNC-October 22 comes as tensions between communities on the island have mounted in recent months.

In April this year a Muslim prayer hall was burned to the ground just months after the island was rocked by anti-Arab riots over Christmas.

Protests erupted on the Mediterranean island over Christmas after firefighters and police called to a low-income immigrant neighbourhood were ambushed and attacked.

Demonstrators shouting slogans such as "This is our home!" and "Arabs get out", vandalised a prayer hall and set fire to books including copies of the Koran.

The attack on the prayer hall prompted French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve to express his "solidarity with the Muslims of Corsica".

While the FLNC-October 22 warned radicals that "your medieval philosophy does not frighten us", the group also called on all "Muslims of Corsica" to take a stand and denounce radical Islam and report anyone who might be drifting towards radicalization.

"If Islamic State carries out actions on our soil, we can only win together."

The group also urged "calm in the face of barbarity" and stressed that it's group was not a refuge for those seeking a racial or xenophobic fight.

The warning from the militants comes after several politicians and even the chief of France's internal security agency expressed concerns about the threat of a kind of civil war in France.

Patrick Calvar from the DGSI, told a parliamentary inquiry that there was evidence that right wing groups had been gathering arms to carry out their own attacks.

Calvar predicted "a confrontation between the extreme right and the Muslim world".

"Where is the spark going to come from that will light the powder, transforming France into an uncontrollable country where groups take up arms and hand out their own justice?"

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160728/corsican-militants-threaten-to-hit-back-against-islamist-radicals

[Hamilcar]

https://www.rt.com/news/354010-normandy-church-attack-account/

After slitting priest's throat, France church attackers smiled & talked peace and God – witnesses

Two nuns, who were taken hostage by two jihadists in a Normandy church on Tuesday, gave accounts of their ordeals. They said one of the attackers smiled happily after slitting Father Jacques Hamel's throat and a bizarre theological dispute followed the crime.
Abdel Malik Petitjean and Adel Kermiche, both 19, were killed by French police as they tried to flee the 17th century Catholic church in the town of Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray in the north of France just after killing its priest and seriously injuring an elderly parishioner.

Sister Huguette Peron and Sister Helene Decaux, both in their early 80s, were among the people taken hostage by the attackers, who pledged allegiance to the terrorist group Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL). Two days after the attack the still shocked women talked to the Catholic newspaper La Vie, which published their interview on Friday.

READ MORE: ISIS hostage takers kill 84yo priest at French church, reportedly slitting his throat

Sister Huguette said both attackers were obviously nervous and aggressive, but killing Father Jacques seemed to please one of them.

"I got a smile from the second (man). Not a smile of triumph, but a soft smile, that of someone who is happy," she told the newspaper.

The men then had a conversation about religion with their female hostages. One asked Sister Helene if she was familiar with the Quran.

"Yes, I respect it like I respect the Bible, I've read several suras. And those that hit me in particular are the suras about peace," she responded.

One of the attackers was apparently touched and replied: "Peace, it's what we want. When you talk to the television, tell the authorities that as long as there are bombs on Syria, we will continue our attacks. And they will happen every day. When you stop, we will stop."

France is part of the US-led coalition, which is trying to undermine IS in Syria and Iraq through a bombing campaign and supporting some of the local forces opposing the organization.

Later, one of the attackers tried to convince sister Huguette that Jesus could not be both a man and God.

"It is you who are wrong," he said.

"Maybe, but too bad," she replied, not wishing to argue and expecting that she might be killed.

As the police arrived, the two attackers wanted to use the women as human shields and escape. However they didn't quiet manage to cover themselves behind them, allowing police snipers to take them down, the nuns told the newspaper.

The church attack is the latest in a string of IS-organized or inspired acts of terrorism, which have been shaking France since 2015. Amid continued security failures, France is considering banning foreign sponsorship of mosques, Prime Minister Manuel Valls announced on Friday.

The belief in a literal paradise is so corrosive, so dangerous that it must be made unacceptable in modern civilized society.

[The Brain]

His (PBUH) followers are blind. Too much heaven on their minds.

[Martinus]

The belief in a literal paradise is so corrosive, so dangerous that it must be made unacceptable in modern civilized society.

You can't do this. The need for a transcendental (any type of religious, spiritual, mystical etc.) experience is deeply wired in our psyches and, according to the Maslov's theory, it cannot be ignored without a significant detriment to one's psychological health (there are individuals who lack this need, at least ostensibly, but they are in a great minority and one cannot build a society around such minority).

Post-Englightenment freethinkers and atheists made a mistake of thinking otherwise - by trying to expunge spirituality from the society, they weakened the more functional and openminded forms of it, and by extension strengthened the more rigid and intolerant strains, that are harder to eradicate.

What the world needs is some sort of spiritual revival through re-animation of those good and peaceful strains (perhaps in some sort of a reformed form, updated to modern times) and not a total war against religion - because we will lose such war.

On this basis, I have also reconsidered my attitude towards Islam during my ban period - I don't think any more we should strive to eradicate Islam as a whole - it won't work. We should work to eradicate the more corrosive sects of it, such as Wahhabism and Salafism, but at the same time work to promote and strengthen sects and schools of thoughts such as Sufism and Alawism - to give people an alternative.

[Hamilcar]

The belief in a literal paradise is so corrosive, so dangerous that it must be made unacceptable in modern civilized society.

You can't do this. The need for a transcendental (any type of religious, spiritual, mystical etc.) experience is deeply wired in our psyches and, according to the Maslov's theory, it cannot be ignored without a significant detriment to one's psychological health (there are individuals who lack this need, at least ostensibly, but they are in a great minority and one cannot build a society around such minority).

This is why I said "literal paradise".

For spirituality without religious myths, try this: https://www.samharris.org/waking-up

[Martinus]

The belief in a literal paradise is so corrosive, so dangerous that it must be made unacceptable in modern civilized society.

You can't do this. The need for a transcendental (any type of religious, spiritual, mystical etc.) experience is deeply wired in our psyches and, according to the Maslov's theory, it cannot be ignored without a significant detriment to one's psychological health (there are individuals who lack this need, at least ostensibly, but they are in a great minority and one cannot build a society around such minority).

This is why I said "literal paradise".

For spirituality without religious myths, try this: https://www.samharris.org/waking-up

Yup. I really like Sam Harris - have you seen his interview with David Rubin? He actually makes a very interesting point there, which is consistent with what you just said, that most of the jihadists are not depressed losers - they are actually people who are euphoric and happy. The key is to start offering people the same kind of experience through spiritual systems that are not murderous.

[Hamilcar]

The belief in a literal paradise is so corrosive, so dangerous that it must be made unacceptable in modern civilized society.

You can't do this. The need for a transcendental (any type of religious, spiritual, mystical etc.) experience is deeply wired in our psyches and, according to the Maslov's theory, it cannot be ignored without a significant detriment to one's psychological health (there are individuals who lack this need, at least ostensibly, but they are in a great minority and one cannot build a society around such minority).

This is why I said "literal paradise".

For spirituality without religious myths, try this: https://www.samharris.org/waking-up

Yup. I really like Sam Harris - have you seen his interview with David Rubin? He actually makes a very interesting point there, which is consistent with what you just said, that most of the jihadists are not depressed losers - they are actually people who are euphoric and happy. The key is to start offering people the same kind of experience through spiritual systems that are not murderous.

I don't think we disagree, at all!

[Martinus]

Indeed! One additional point I would make is that, again, while there is a minority of people who want to experiment and look for new things when it comes to spirituality, many more are rather traditional (I don't want to say "lazy"). For their sake, you also need to offer options that are (or at least seem to be) traditional. So for Muslims, you can promote the aforementioned Sufism and Alawism, for Christians Unitarism etc. (although truth be told, most Christian sects in the West these days are pretty harmless and peaceful anyway). Sometimes you have to work with what you have.

[Hamilcar]

Agreed, but all of this is wishful thinking as long as the heart of darkness that is Saudi Arabia remains and we (Western civilization) does not tackle their poisonous ideology in own own backyards.

[Martinus]

Agreed again. Not that it's likely to change under Clinton (not that I am expecting Trump to be much different).

[The Brain]

Get a room.