The Off Topic Topic

[Eddie Teach]

I think there's been more conversation about debt and deficit in the last four years than any time I can remember.

Yeah, the stimulus packages and the tea party have pretty much driven that discussion.

[Sheilbh]

I think there's been more conversation about debt and deficit in the last four years than any time I can remember.

Yeah, the stimulus packages and the tea party have pretty much driven that discussion.

Plus I think the example of Greece, for both sides.  One of my irritations is when Europe or the UK is press-ganged into an internal American debate about spending - Krugman's the worst, I think it's been exposed now.  It's deeply frustrating, because then those respectable voices (on both sides) are then re-cited over here as authority

[CountDeMoney]

Somebody ask Yi where he was last summer, when the government virtually shut down over the debt.

Exactly.  To the extent that debt has been mentioned, it has been purely a political issue.

Interestingly enough there has been a lot more coverage of state deficits.

Probably because states are much more susceptible to financial breakdown than the Fed.

And as far as the Fed goes, let's not forget--"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." -- Dick Cheney, Vice President to Paul O'Neill, OF New York Yankees, 2002.

[Admiral Yi]

And as far as the Fed goes, let's not forget--"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." -- Dick Cheney, Vice President to Paul O'Neill, OF New York Yankees, 2002.

If we accept this as true, then that raises a host of other questions, like why did Bubba even bother, and why did the press and Democrats harp so much on Wubya's deficits?

[CountDeMoney]

And as far as the Fed goes, let's not forget--"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." -- Dick Cheney, Vice President to Paul O'Neill, OF New York Yankees, 2002.

If we accept this as true, then that raises a host of other questions, like why did Bubba even bother, and why did the press and Democrats harp so much on Wubya's deficits?

Bubba bothered because a balanced budget was all the bipartisan rage, and a fundamental driver behind a strong dollar--and the reason they harped on Dubya is because he pissed away an unprecedented surplus in a matter of months on unnecessary election bribes tax cuts, the elimination of revenue streams and a shitty overseas weak-dollar philosophy.

Don't worry, we'll get the Fed deficit under control;  it'll just take 30 years.

[Admiral Yi]

Bubba bothered because a balanced budget was all the bipartisan rage, and a fundamental driver behind a strong dollar--and the reason they harped on Dubya is because he pissed away an unprecedented surplus in a matter of months on unnecessary election bribes tax cuts, the elimination of revenue streams and a shitty overseas weak-dollar philosophy.

OK, now you're saying deficits do matter. 

Don't worry, we'll get the Fed deficit under control;  it'll just take 30 years.

We don't have 30 years.

BTW Captain Hip-Hop, "The Fed" is the Federal Reserve Bank.

[CountDeMoney]

OK, now you're saying deficits do matter. 

They matter, to a certain extent--just not nearly to the degree of Teabaggery/Ryan budget/debt ceiling hysterics.

We don't have 30 years.

Sure we do!

BTW Captain Hip-Hop, "The Fed" is the Federal Reserve Bank.

...sigh.

[Neil]

Read in The Economist that US Debt/GDP now is 100%.

Is it just me, or has the media decided the US debt is not very newsworthy starting in, oh, roughly, give or take, 2008?

I think there's been more conversation about debt and deficit in the last four years than any time I can remember.

Not so here.  It was a much bigger concern in the 90s.  But then again, you have the mismanaged EU melting down at home, and the US abroad.

[Neil]

We don't have 30 years.

Sure we do!

Depends on how out of control they are.  If the problem is being worked on, then maybe.  If the can is getting kicked further down the road, then you're going to run into problems long before then.

[garbon]

http://gawker.com/5914527/jcpenney-responds-to-homophobic-boycott-calls-with-gay-fathers-day-ad

JCPenney Responds to Homophobic Boycott Calls with Gay Father's Day Ad

In what appears to be a direct response to the failed boycott campaign of anti-gay group One Million Moms, JCPenney yesterday unveiled a new Father's Day ad featuring a same-sex couple playing with their children.

According to the company, the two men who appear in the ad are "real-life dads Todd Koch and Cooper Smith," and the jubilant children are their kids, Claire and Mason.

"First Pals: What makes Dad so cool?" reads the ad's copy. "He's the swim coach, tent maker, best friend, bike fixer and hug giver - all rolled into one. Or two."

Back in February, the department store chain faced criticism from the American Family Association's One Million Moms project for its hiring of Ellen DeGeneres to be the company's new spokesperson. JCPenney refused to submit to the group's bullying, and stuck by DeGeneres.

[Admiral Yi]

Depends on how out of control they are.  If the problem is being worked on, then maybe.  If the can is getting kicked further down the road, then you're going to run into problems long before then.

Four more years of the status quo and we're Italy.

[CountDeMoney]

Four more years of the status quo and we're Italy.

Bah. Bring back the revenue streams we had circa 1999, tinker a wee bit with SS and Medicare, and revamp the entire Department of Defense contract and procurement system, and we're out of the red.  Not in the best shape, but not Italy, either.

[Neil]

Depends on how out of control they are.  If the problem is being worked on, then maybe.  If the can is getting kicked further down the road, then you're going to run into problems long before then.

Four more years of the status quo and we're Italy.

That's survivable for the US.

Look, the US is finished.  The good old days are never going to come back.  Globalization has ended the ability of the American people to find the well-paying work that drove their lifestyles, and the self-interest of American business will force them to cut their own throats.  At the same time, the American people will not accept that their quality of life compared to that of their parents must inevitably decline.  It's been a long road to get here, and bad decisions were made by a lot of people, but now we're here.  Social atomization and hard stratification are the way of the future.

[Admiral Yi]

Bah. Bring back the revenue streams we had circa 1999, tinker a wee bit with SS and Medicare, and revamp the entire Department of Defense contract and procurement system, and we're out of the red.  Not in the best shape, but not Italy, either.

If I were you I would start preparing my line of rhetoric now for the possibility that Obama pushes for another extension of the Bushitler tax cuts.  12/31/12.

[Neil]

Bah. Bring back the revenue streams we had circa 1999, tinker a wee bit with SS and Medicare, and revamp the entire Department of Defense contract and procurement system, and we're out of the red.  Not in the best shape, but not Italy, either.

If I were you I would start preparing my line of rhetoric now for the possibility that Obama pushes for another extension of the Bushitler tax cuts.  12/31/12.

Dude's not eligeable to run for a third term.