Columbia student carrying mattress until school expels her rapist

[Malthus]

Huh? No.

Because she very obviously does not fear a "victim stigma" now, makes it more likely that she did not fear a "victim stigma" then, because she's not the sort of person that fears a "victim stigma".

This bit of information goes into the cost/benefit analysis as to whether she would have been deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making an accusation.

While it is rational to presume that most people are strongly deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making accusations (false or true) as a generality, that generality does not hold true in her case.

Not responding to my point - that there's a difference between backing off dealing with something under one set of circumstances and embracing dealing with them under a different set of circumstances - by restating your argument does not make it more convincing.

I don't really think cost/benefit analysis is an appropriate term to use when dealing with this type of case, but even so - there's a different cost/benefit analysis for her then and now. In one situation she felt alone, that nothing would come out of it, and that the process would be painful; now she's found away to make the process not painful - empowering even - and there are some positive things associated with it.

She's found a way to turn the cost/benefit analysis of pursuing this into a positive; you are taking that as proof that she is likely lying. I remain unconvinced.

I'm not taking her current 'turning this into a positive' as proof she is lying; I'm taking it as proof she does not have the cultural attitute, found in many men and women, that exposing her victimhood to the public puts her under a stigma and so is to be avoided - the very point of data BB was alluding to when he said that, as a generality, he believes rape accusations.   

She's the same person then as now, so it is a reasonable, allbeit rebuttable, assumption that her attitudes towards such issues are reasonably consistent. Proposing otherwise I think requires something in the way of proof. 

You mean like how when first decided to come forward she stated she hadn't because she been afraid/ashamed and hadn't even wanted to mention it to family or friends?

That's a pretty obviously self-serving statement to explain why she waited so long to make the complaint. Again, rather inconsistent with her stated beliefs and behavours.

[garbon]

Huh? No.

Because she very obviously does not fear a "victim stigma" now, makes it more likely that she did not fear a "victim stigma" then, because she's not the sort of person that fears a "victim stigma".

This bit of information goes into the cost/benefit analysis as to whether she would have been deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making an accusation.

While it is rational to presume that most people are strongly deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making accusations (false or true) as a generality, that generality does not hold true in her case.

Not responding to my point - that there's a difference between backing off dealing with something under one set of circumstances and embracing dealing with them under a different set of circumstances - by restating your argument does not make it more convincing.

I don't really think cost/benefit analysis is an appropriate term to use when dealing with this type of case, but even so - there's a different cost/benefit analysis for her then and now. In one situation she felt alone, that nothing would come out of it, and that the process would be painful; now she's found away to make the process not painful - empowering even - and there are some positive things associated with it.

She's found a way to turn the cost/benefit analysis of pursuing this into a positive; you are taking that as proof that she is likely lying. I remain unconvinced.

I'm not taking her current 'turning this into a positive' as proof she is lying; I'm taking it as proof she does not have the cultural attitute, found in many men and women, that exposing her victimhood to the public puts her under a stigma and so is to be avoided - the very point of data BB was alluding to when he said that, as a generality, he believes rape accusations.   

She's the same person then as now, so it is a reasonable, allbeit rebuttable, assumption that her attitudes towards such issues are reasonably consistent. Proposing otherwise I think requires something in the way of proof. 

You mean like how when first decided to come forward she stated she hadn't because she been afraid/ashamed and hadn't even wanted to mention it to family or friends?

That's a pretty obviously self-serving statement to explain why she waited so long to make the complaint. Again, rather inconsistent with her stated beliefs and behavours.

You mean inconsistent with how she didn't say anything for a long time then filed a complaint with university (not police) about the rape after hearing that the accused had sexually assaulted two other women? How she didn't to go to the police until prodded her to do so? How she didn't start mattress art until recently?

[garbon]

Btw, unless someone was just impervious to any and all judgments cast their way - bit hard to believe that she has no fear of a "victim stigma." It takes an odd duck to not care one whit about society/people around them.

[alfred russel]

have you actually reviewed the investigation file, which is a public record under florida law and available on line?

I don't know what actually happened that night but I know that from my review of the primary source materials available to the state attorney,  I concluded that there was significant reasonable doubt given the victim's three differing versions of events all of which were inconsistent with the forensic evidence which forensic evidence was in fact was consistent with the accused's version of events.

police corruption and cover up in small southern college town does sell more papers in New York though

discount my opinions as a seminole if you wish but I think on the other side of the bias ledger I had a daughter in undergrad at fsu at the time this all occured and think i looked at the investigative material with an objective lawyer's eye

Yep, I looked at the same data, and, unsurprisingly, came to a different conclusion than you.  However, the investigative blunders have far more to do with the investigative process than the investigative product, given that the product was a result of the flawed process.

I didn't even have to look into the data at all to know that Winston is guilty. The game tape of him raping Miami's secondary was all the evidence I needed to know that the man is an experienced and remorseless rapist.

[Malthus]

Btw, unless someone was just impervious to any and all judgments cast their way - bit hard to believe that she has no fear of a "victim stigma." It takes an odd duck to not care one whit about society/people around them.

Which society are you referring to? The society of student life on campus, in which she is now, by all accounts, a hero?

I haven't been to university for a long time, but even when I went, back in the 90s, a woman who was a victim of rape was not "stigmatized" in certain circles--namely, arty, left-leaning, feminist ones. Has that changed?

[garbon]

Btw, unless someone was just impervious to any and all judgments cast their way - bit hard to believe that she has no fear of a "victim stigma." It takes an odd duck to not care one whit about society/people around them.

Which society are you referring to? The society of student life on campus, in which she is now, by all accounts, a hero?

Well you haven't read all accounts. The back half of the article has mentions of students who find the accounts of the various rape victims on campuses difficult to believe and there was a big backlash when the rape group (that Sulkowicz seems to be a part of though no mention, of course, if she participated) started graffiting the names of accused rapists in campus bathrooms./there are accused men that have received some punishments so people thought they'd already got what they deserved. There are also a few accused males who have been tossed from the university that are suing.

Just because there are nice photo-ops with her with several supporters doesn't mean the campus is united behind her.

I haven't been to university for a long time, but even when I went, back in the 90s, a woman who was a victim of rape was not "stigmatized" in certain circles--namely, arty, left-leaning, feminist ones. Has that changed?

Yes because the only people she will have significant interactions with are some left-leaning folks in university. Oh wait, she's now a senior who will be graduating / also has people round the world casting judgments about her.

[Admiral Yi]

I was chatting up an MFA at my karaoke, and within a minute of she had told me she was raped in Ghana while doing work with an NGO.

[derspiess]

Btw, unless someone was just impervious to any and all judgments cast their way - bit hard to believe that she has no fear of a "victim stigma." It takes an odd duck to not care one whit about society/people around them.

In the Winston case I can see that.  You raise allegations against a star QB and Heisman candidate (who of course later won), you're going to raise the ire of quite a few people with a vested interest in the accused. 

In the Mattress Girl case it's a bit different.  In her campus bubble she seems to have suffered from little if any victim stigma.

[derspiess]

I was chatting up an MFA at my karaoke, and within a minute of she had told me she was raped in Ghana while doing work with an NGO.

There was a gal in my sophomore English class that made it a point to bring up at least once each class that she had been raped.  Seemed weird, but I figured maybe that was just how she was coping.

[Rasputin]

have you actually reviewed the investigation file, which is a public record under florida law and available on line?

I don't know what actually happened that night but I know that from my review of the primary source materials available to the state attorney,  I concluded that there was significant reasonable doubt given the victim's three differing versions of events all of which were inconsistent with the forensic evidence which forensic evidence was in fact was consistent with the accused's version of events.

police corruption and cover up in small southern college town does sell more papers in New York though

discount my opinions as a seminole if you wish but I think on the other side of the bias ledger I had a daughter in undergrad at fsu at the time this all occured and think i looked at the investigative material with an objective lawyer's eye

Yep, I looked at the same data, and, unsurprisingly, came to a different conclusion than you.  However, the investigative blunders have far more to do with the investigative process than the investigative product, given that the product was a result of the flawed process.

a rape kit with no evidence of trauma and tearing, her telling the police she was drugged with no evidence of that in her blood, her telling the police she was hit over the head and lost consciousness with no evidence of head trauma, and her telling the police she was too drunk to remember what happened despite blood alcohol regression showing she was legal to drive at the time of the alleged rape cause you no reasonable doubt? She had bruising only on her knees. The accused admits having consensual doggy style sex with her on a tiled bathroom floor. Again I'm not proclaiming Jameis innocent but this reflects reasonable doubt.

[Rasputin]

have you actually reviewed the investigation file, which is a public record under florida law and available on line?

I don't know what actually happened that night but I know that from my review of the primary source materials available to the state attorney,  I concluded that there was significant reasonable doubt given the victim's three differing versions of events all of which were inconsistent with the forensic evidence which forensic evidence was in fact was consistent with the accused's version of events.

police corruption and cover up in small southern college town does sell more papers in New York though

discount my opinions as a seminole if you wish but I think on the other side of the bias ledger I had a daughter in undergrad at fsu at the time this all occured and think i looked at the investigative material with an objective lawyer's eye

Yep, I looked at the same data, and, unsurprisingly, came to a different conclusion than you.  However, the investigative blunders have far more to do with the investigative process than the investigative product, given that the product was a result of the flawed process.

I didn't even have to look into the data at all to know that Winston is guilty. The game tape of him raping Miami's secondary was all the evidence I needed to know that the man is an experienced and remorseless rapist.

Miami wanted it. They've even invited us to their house to do it again this year.

[alfred russel]

Miami wanted it. They've even invited us to their house to do it again this year.

I'm not delusional about our chances, but if there is enough of the old Miami spirit in this team to have just one guy break Winston's leg, I'll consider this season a success. 

[Rasputin]

jimbo can have a job for life so long as he goes at least 2 and ten every season as long as his two wins are against the gators and canes

[alfred russel]

jimbo can have a job for life so long as he goes at least 2 and ten every season as long as his two wins are against the gators and canes

In a lot of years, beating those two teams in the same season means almost by definition you are national championship caliber. These aren't those years. 

[jimmy olsen]

I was chatting up an MFA at my karaoke, and within a minute of she had told me she was raped in Ghana while doing work with an NGO.

MFA?