NCAA Football, 2014-2015

[Berkut]

Assuming the offending player was in fact running a slant after a jab step out, and that the DB did in fact jump the slant, what should the offending player have done differently to avoid the flag?

Put his hands up in the air to show he wasn't engaged with the defender at all.

Correct answer.  Also he could maybe turn his head to at least pretend to look back at the QB.

Indeed. There are lots of things you can (and would) do if you were actually looking to run a route.

Especially on  play like this where it is going to develop very quickly.


If you pause the video I linked at 8:42 you can see a ND WR already engaged with the DB. Notice that the other WR is right at the LOS, and the intended WR just a step behind him. The DB he is going to block is backing away and his feet at right at the goal line.


Advance 8:46/7 in the video.


DB is now a yard into the endzone, WR is now a yard short of the endzone - the DB is backing up.


Inside WR still engaged with his defender, doing a nice job of keeping him out of the play. Intended WR at this point is STILL BEHIND THE LOS! If he continues along it, or the QB throws along it, this would be a legal play and a TD.


8:47 - now the WR has actively "chased" the widest DB 2 yards into the endzone and engaged him, and the intended WR has slipped  a yard beyond the LOS.


Dorseys claim that his route is actively downfield is actually not even correct - his route is mostly lateral, and in fact the throw actually looks pretty good - if the WR has held his route along the LOS, he would have caught that same throw right at the LOS, which would almost certainly not get a flag.




Anyone who can look at that image and say that those 2 receivers are trying to run routes is crazy.


The fun part about this photo right here is that at this point, ND hasn't actually done anything wrong yet - that WR extends his route down the LOS, and they are golden...so to speak.


But he doesn't, he slips downfield and the pass is clearly caught beyond the LOS.


But it is blatantly obvious that neither WR is running a route.

[grumbler]

It wasn't hard to find a bunch of quotes or remember a guy getting super confident about his team after beating App State.

Gump, you're a fuckin' genius!

[alfred russel]

Wow - that is a pretty interesting comment. So you think all the people who officiate for a living are all in some grand conspiracy to hide officiating mistakes that are obvious to the like of you and South Bend radio talk show hosts?

The video I linked, and which you obviously did not watch, is a video put out by Redding every week addressed to officials primarily to highlight mistakes and procedural errors. Officials constantly, and I mean that literally, CONSTANTLY highlight mistakes that are made to each other. We watch video every single week where coordinators point out things done wrong. Hell, just last week I got to have the enjoyable experience of reviewing clips from my game and invited to explain why I didn't make some calls I should have, and this was as a result of clips sent into my boss by the losing coach. And I was wrong. Well, on one of them I was wrong anyway.

The idea that they all sit around lying and telling everyone nobody makes mistakes is so completely ignorant it pretty much destroys any credibility you never had on the subject. Hell, the other situation I pointed out (because it had to do with Arizona) on that very video was Redding telling the officials they screwed up the play!

Finally, I find it kind of amazing that your whine is that they don't say the officials screwed up except when their is evidence that the officials screwed up. Gosh, what a bunch of assholes, they don't throw their officials under the bus based on something other than actual video evidence or clear mis-application of the rules! Why, that is ridiculous! Doesn't Redding listen to South Bend radio hosts?

I've never said there was a conspiracy (except in an obvious joke post). I don't believe there is one. Everyone acting in their own interest is not a conspiracy.

There is a ton of judgment in being an official. Many flags could be thrown that are not, and vice versa. There is a strong bias in the sport not to question any but the most egregious officiating judgments after the game. The NFL and every conference I'm aware actually has rules against publicly criticizing officials post game--Brian Kelly is somewhat unique in being able to go on his post game tirade against the refs because ND isn't in a conference for football.

If that doesn't correspond with your experience, then fine. But there is a narrative that ND was warned by the officials to stop rubbing DBs during the game or else they would get a penalty (which Jimbo Fisher was lobbying for). If this is so cut and dried, then why not call other penalties on ND earlier in the game? If this isn't such a huge gray area, then it seems ND was either committing penalties the refs were delinquent in not calling (even after seeing), or being given warnings for legal plays.

I'd respond to the substance but I'm supposed to be working today.

[alfred russel]

It wasn't hard to find a bunch of quotes or remember a guy getting super confident about his team after beating App State.

Gump, you're a fuckin' genius!

Thanks, but before I start feeling good about my self, I'm going to wait for the judgment of someone who 6 games ago thought there was no way Brady Hoke would get shitcanned. 

[MadBurgerMaker]

That penalty in the ND-FSU game was blatantly obvious.  How is this even a thing?

[grumbler]

Berkut, I don't want to show the vid yet because I think Dorsey is going to dig himself a deeper hole with that ego of his, but if you extend your pictures about one second beyond the second picture, you will see that Fuller actually bends forward with his arms on the DB, power-driving with his legs.  He is distinctly and obviously bent forward at the waist, which he could not be if he were actually trying to avoid contact.  This is what Mr Midnight radio steps forward to block with his body when he does his "better angle replay."

[Berkut]

I am sure he was bent forward because the spawn of Satan Florida DB was pulling on his jersey. What you see there is blatant DPI.

[alfred russel]

The offensive line did not block as though it was a screen (they were forming a pocket rather than trying to block downfield or aggressively knock back the defenders).

Why would they - this is a 2 yard play. They don't need to block downfield, the play will have failed or succeeded long before any block they place downfield will matter. They just need to give the QB time to dump the quick screen. You should watch more college football. This is a very common goal line play.

Generally when you run a quick screen to a receiver and don't anticipate blocking downfield, the tackles don't passively give ground to the opposing defensive line. Otherwise you give the defensive ends an opportunity to get into the backfield and knock the ball down.

You said this.

It takes a serious and dedicated lack of understanding of football to believe that ND was running trips to one side with a pass to the receiver behind the other two just over the LOS...and they were not trying to run a screen.

Keep these things in mind:
1) The ND receivers said that they were not blocking (as for a screen) and no one for ND has said that.
2) Brian Kelly said they were not running a screen, and all 3 receivers were running pass routes.
3) Contrary to what you said first about the QB messing up and throwing the ball across the line, the receivers route actually took him across the line before the ball was thrown.
4) The pass took the receiver downfield another couple yards after the ball was thrown
5) While both of the receivers on that side of the ball had major contact with FSU DBs, the DBs were attempting to initiate contact (in press coverage).

So here we are. You apparently believe that every public statement from Notre Dame is a bald faced lie, and that everyone with any football knowledge knows that Kelly is a liar. Any sense of integrity he may have pretended to have with his team is now shot, as presumably they know the play that was called, and would know that he is lying to the world about it. And why is Brian Kelly lying and erasing his credibility? Everyone knows that there is zero chance of getting the outcome of the game changed.

What is scary here is that you are an official, and don't understand that non screen plays can be run out of such a look in such a situation.

[alfred russel]

Assuming the offending player was in fact running a slant after a jab step out, and that the DB did in fact jump the slant, what should the offending player have done differently to avoid the flag?

Put his hands up in the air to show he wasn't engaged with the defender at all.

Correct answer.  Also he could maybe turn his head to at least pretend to look back at the QB.

Wait, what?

You need to turn your head to look for a ball when you are getting jammed at the line and not anywhere near the end of your route?

There were 3 ND receivers, and because they picked up the wrong men in coverage only 2 FSU DBs. They both jammed receivers that were not thrown the ball. I'd be interested if anyone can find a youtube clip where offensive pass interference was called on a pass thrown so quickly in such a situation.

[Berkut]

The offensive line did not block as though it was a screen (they were forming a pocket rather than trying to block downfield or aggressively knock back the defenders).

Why would they - this is a 2 yard play. They don't need to block downfield, the play will have failed or succeeded long before any block they place downfield will matter. They just need to give the QB time to dump the quick screen. You should watch more college football. This is a very common goal line play.

Generally when you run a quick screen to a receiver and don't anticipate blocking downfield, the tackles don't passively give ground to the opposing defensive line. Otherwise you give the defensive ends an opportunity to get into the backfield and knock the ball down.

You said this.

It takes a serious and dedicated lack of understanding of football to believe that ND was running trips to one side with a pass to the receiver behind the other two just over the LOS...and they were not trying to run a screen.

Keep these things in mind:
1) The ND receivers said that they were not blocking (as for a screen) and no one for ND has said that.

Officials rarely make calls based on what someone says in a press conference.

2) Brian Kelly said they were not running a screen, and all 3 receivers were running pass routes.

They should learn to run better routes then, and not run straight into the DBs.

3) Contrary to what you said first about the QB messing up and throwing the ball across the line, the receivers route actually took him across the line before the ball was thrown.

Except not - look at the screenshot above. The WR is on the LOS as the ball is thrown. The path of the ball in flight is mostly lateral, and could have certainly been caught on the LOS rather than beyond it. Not that it matters, since there is no reason to presume that the actual flight of the ball is what is intended when the play is drawn up.

4) The pass took the receiver downfield another couple yards after the ball was thrown

Again, this is not correct and irrelevant even if it was correct. QBs miss. Receivers don't run perfect routes.

5) While both of the receivers on that side of the ball had major contact with FSU DBs, the DBs were attempting to initiate contact (in press coverage).

This is just plan not true. Watch the video. The outside DB is backing up, and the WR chases him down into the endzone, then seals him inside.

So here we are. You apparently believe that every public statement from Notre Dame is a bald faced lie, and that everyone with any football knowledge knows that Kelly is a liar.

I think anyone who knows anything about football knows that if this is NOT OPI, then there is no such thing as OPI. If Kelly says something that isn't exactly true in a press conference, he might not be the first coach to ever do so.

Any sense of integrity he may have pretended to have with his team is now shot, as presumably they know the play that was called, and would know that he is lying to the world about it. And why is Brian Kelly lying and erasing his credibility? Everyone knows that there is zero chance of getting the outcome of the game changed.

Yeah, I know you in your vast knowledge of football know that no coach ever says anything in a press conference after losing a game that is not 100% absolutely true.

What is scary here is that you are an official, and don't understand that non screen plays can be run out of such a look in such a situation.

I understand that offensive players restrictions on pass interference start with the snap, and they are not allowed to go down and block DBs, and that is what they did. Easy OPI call, as every credible and objective observer who understands the rules and how they are applied has said over and over again.

[derspiess]

2) Brian Kelly said they were not running a screen, and all 3 receivers were running pass routes.

You're putting an awful lot of trust in Brian Kelly, who has shown himself to be pretty untrustworthy.

[derspiess]

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/marshall--conference-usa-hire-pr-firm-to-help-thundering-herd-make-college-football-playoff-233338157.html

[Valmy]

2) Brian Kelly said they were not running a screen, and all 3 receivers were running pass routes.

You're putting an awful lot of trust in Brian Kelly, who has shown himself to be pretty untrustworthy.

Yeah Brian Kelly is a great football coach who is doing great things at Notre Dame but he is a pretty ruthless competitor with few scruples.  Objectivity is not to be expected.

[Valmy]

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/marshall--conference-usa-hire-pr-firm-to-help-thundering-herd-make-college-football-playoff-233338157.html

If only West Virginia still played them.

[derspiess]

2) Brian Kelly said they were not running a screen, and all 3 receivers were running pass routes.

You're putting an awful lot of trust in Brian Kelly, who has shown himself to be pretty untrustworthy.

Yeah Brian Kelly is a great football coach who is doing great things at Notre Dame but he is a pretty ruthless competitor with few scruples. 

Yeah, just ask the guy he sent up on a lift to film practice in >50mph winds.  Oh wait, you can't.  He's dead.