Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Valmy]

Things that everyone (well, the large majority of people) can agree to hate in Austria:
- USA
- EU
- NATO
- Germany
- any kind of military action (with some humanitarian exceptions)
- corporations
- neo-liberal capitalism
- politicians
- banks
- Muslims ("Except Ahmed from work, he's cool, and the guy I buy my döner from.")
- Israel's treatment of Palestinians
- genetically modified anything

Damn.  What is it that they like?

[Syt]

Underdogs. The oppressed. Any opponent of the above.

[Admiral Yi]

The West has far more interests in Ukraine and in pushing back against Putin there than Syria which was already, sadly, a not terribly important pariah.

This is undoubtedly true for Europe, much less so for the US.

The US doesn't import energy through the Ukraine, nor do we need to worry about hordes of Ukrainian refugees.

[alfred russel]

Obama did mention a line, though he didn't specify a colour.

I think Putin knows the US and the EU care far, far more about Ukraine than Syria.

I've read Telegraph and Comment is Free comment sections. It's not pretty below the line

Europe cares more about the Ukraine than Syria, I'm not sure the US does. Certainly not far far more. We probably care more about Venezuela than either of them.

[Syt]

Anecdotal proof: when the German national team is playing at an international tournament, Austrians will in the vast majority root for the teams playing against Germany. During a big tournament summer (Euro, World Cup) you might hear loud cheers from many open windows whenever a goal is scored against Germany.

[alfred russel]

NATO troops in Ukraine would mean WW3, so that hopefully won't happen.

The US is definitely out, and I think Germany too. So that means France and the UK vs. Russia. That isn't WWIII, it is Crimean War II. 

[Valmy]

Anecdotal proof: when the German national team is playing at an international tournament, Austrians will in the vast majority root for the teams playing against Germany. During a big tournament summer (Euro, World Cup) you might hear loud cheers from many open windows whenever a goal is scored against Germany.

They already sent Hitler to Germany, what more pain do they want to see the Germans suffer?

Basically the Austrians love losers and hate winners.

[Syt]

My personal interpretation is that winners are suspicious, because they must have done something wrong in order to be on top.

[DGuller]

Looks like they're deploying paratroopers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/20/world/europe/ukraine.html?_r=0

The agreement was announced after indications — including the deployment of paratroopers to help protect military bases — that the Ukrainian authorities were concerned about maintaining control, particularly in the country's west.

"In many regions of the country, municipal buildings, offices of the Interior Ministry, state security and the prosecutor general, army units and arms depots are being seized," Oleksandr Yakimenko, the head of the state security service, the S.B.U., said in a televised statement.

The Defense Ministry later added a further beat to a drumroll of ominous warnings a day after the capital, Kiev, erupted in a frenzy of fire and fighting that left at least 25 people dead, including nine police officers, and hundreds wounded.

"Military servants of the armed forces of Ukraine might be used in antiterrorist operations on the territory of Ukraine," the Defense Ministry said, raising the prospect that Mr. Yanukovych could call on the armed forces to try to restore order and keep himself in office.

I have a hard time believing that they didn't already have adequate security at arms depots.

The armed depots that were taken over had security as well.  It doesn't help if security surrenders without a fight.

[Tamas]

My personal interpretation is that winners are suspicious, because they must have done something wrong in order to be on top.

Come to think of it, Austria seems to be into socialism a lot, so it makes sense to have bred a bitter and envious society, like the socialist countries.

[Admiral Yi]

Come to think of it, Austria seems to be into socialism a lot, so it makes sense to have bred a bitter and envious society, like the socialist countries.

  A time and place for everything dude.

[derspiess]

Well, Socialism does suck.

[Sheilbh]

This is undoubtedly true for Europe, much less so for the US.

The US doesn't import energy through the Ukraine, nor do we need to worry about hordes of Ukrainian refugees.

The US cares more about NATO and also the countries on the fringe more than Europe. There's a reason the most pro-American countries in Europe generally run from the Baltics to the Black Sea. America cares more, is far more supportive and has invested more than Europe. Most European countries have been far more happy to play nicely with Russia.

I think Tamas's concern is right that if Ukraine is moved decisively back into Russian influence then you'd see a more aggressive attempts at unpicking the alliance through bullying (the Baltics) or politics (perhaps Hungary). Russia's already accused some of New Europe of 'aggravating' the crisis.

Europe cares more about the Ukraine than Syria, I'm not sure the US does. Certainly not far far more. We probably care more about Venezuela than either of them.

I don't mean sentiment or press coverage though. By that sort of measure Cuba matters, which is mad. I think the US government would care far more about Ukraine, an aggressive Kremlin and expanding Russian influence than a civil war with no good guys or a Latin American basketcase.

[Sheilbh]

Anecdotal proof: when the German national team is playing at an international tournament, Austrians will in the vast majority root for the teams playing against Germany. During a big tournament summer (Euro, World Cup) you might hear loud cheers from many open windows whenever a goal is scored against Germany.

Oh but that's normal. English people generally cheer whoever's playing Germany. So do the Dutch. The Scots support whoever's playing England and so on.

Maybe it's different for countries with a history of regularly winning tournaments

My personal interpretation is that winners are suspicious, because they must have done something wrong in order to be on top.

In fairness isn't that kind of true in Austria? Don't they always have a carve up grand coalition? The vibe I always got as well - maybe just given involvement in Balkans and reputation of Raiffeisen etc - is that Austria's pretty corrupt.

[Malthus]

I have no doubt the US cares a lot about Ukraine. Their willingness and ability to do anything concrete about it, though, I suspect is low. Whatever they say, I suspect that in realpolitic terms they privately concede that Ukraine is within Russia's sphere of influence.