Ukraine's European Revolution?

[derspiess]

I don't mean sentiment or press coverage though. By that sort of measure Cuba matters, which is mad. I think the US government would care far more about Ukraine, an aggressive Kremlin and expanding Russian influence than a civil war with no good guys or a Latin American basketcase.

I'd agree that it probably should.  But that doesn't mean it does.

[jimmy olsen]

CNN saying that there are now over 100 dead and 500 wounded

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/20/world/europe/ukraine-protests/

[alfred russel]

I don't mean sentiment or press coverage though. By that sort of measure Cuba matters, which is mad. I think the US government would care far more about Ukraine, an aggressive Kremlin and expanding Russian influence than a civil war with no good guys or a Latin American basketcase.

Latin America is more important to US interests than Eastern Europe. Venezuela has more GDP than Ukraine, and something like 3 times the nominal per capita GDP (based on wikipedia values). It is also a significant source for US energy imports.

[Admiral Yi]

The US cares more about NATO and also the countries on the fringe more than Europe.
There's a reason the most pro-American countries in Europe generally run from the Baltics to the Black Sea.

The countries on the fringe *are* Europe.  Presumably they care more than the US does.

[Iormlund]

I don't think we care at all. Maybe those closer do, though.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't think we care at all. Maybe those closer do, though.

I would very much expect caring to stop around the Rhine.

[Sheilbh]

The countries on the fringe *are* Europe.  Presumably they care more than the US does.

Okay. New/Old Europe division is in play. New Europe and the US care, Old Europe doesn't. I mean the EU hasn't even had an emergency summit of foreign ministers yet

The FT Brussels correspondent said that Washington's been saying Ukraine's a huge issue for a while, Euro-diplomats didn't care.

The pictures from Kiev are incredible:

[Iormlund]

Shield of the Righteous clearly needs a nerf.

[Admiral Yi]

Okay. New/Old Europe division is in play. New Europe and the US care, Old Europe doesn't. I mean the EU hasn't even had an emergency summit of foreign ministers yet

The FT Brussels correspondent said that Washington's been saying Ukraine's a huge issue for a while, Euro-diplomats didn't care.

I thought we were having a discussion about who *should* care, not who does in reality.

[Tamas]

It was mentioned, that the EU foreign ministers/their staff who met with Yanukovich today say that he called Putin multiple times during the meeting.

[Admiral Yi]

Shelf's picture reminds me of the opening scene in Gangs of New York.

[derspiess]

It was mentioned, that the EU foreign ministers/their staff who met with Yanukovich today say that he called Putin multiple times during the meeting.

If true, then-- wow.  No attempt to keep it on the down low??

[Sheilbh]

I thought we were having a discussion about who *should* care, not who does in reality.

No. I think the US does and should care far more than in the case of Syria. Others think they should but don't. Europe should, I'm not sure Old Europe does.

On the other hand military action won't and shouldn't happen short of Lenny from Grapes of Wrath levels of caring.

Kremlin's just denied Yanukovych and his family are seeking asylum.

[Syt]

My personal interpretation is that winners are suspicious, because they must have done something wrong in order to be on top.

Come to think of it, Austria seems to be into socialism a lot, so it makes sense to have bred a bitter and envious society, like the socialist countries.

Only in the cities (and especially Vienna). The countryside is very conservative.

[Admiral Yi]

Only in the cities (and especially Vienna). The countryside is very conservative.

Conservative in the nationalistic dickhead sense, conservative in the free market libertarian sense, or both?