Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Razgovory]

A state really only fails when it can no longer control the territory it claims, which is what what is happening.

[Syt]

The culprit for the escalation is found: it's the CIA:

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_13/CIAs-head-has-come-to-Ukraine-to-instruct-power-agencies-unofficial-source-6354/

CIA's head has come to Ukraine to instruct power agencies - unofficial source

A source in the Ukrainian parliament has told the Russian Interfax news agency that CIA's Director John Brennan has recently visited Ukraine's capital Kiev and had several meetings with representatives of Ukraine's power-wielding agencies.

The person who said this to Interfax in a phone talk added that John Brennan came to Ukraine not under his real name.

According to some yet unconfirmed information, the decision to suppress protesters in Slavyansk, a city in Ukraine's east, with force was advised to Ukraine's authorities by Brennan.
However, Interfax does not have any confirmation from any official sources that this is really so.

[Razgovory]

It's really sickening how easy the Russians are hoodwinked.

[DGuller]

It's really sickening how easy the Russians are hoodwinked.

You can make people believe anything if they want to believe it.

[Syt]

So, the interim president threatens to start a forceful removal of the occupants if they don't surrender till tomorrow morning. BBC cites rumors that the security forces refused to enter Slavyansk without support from armored vehicles which can't be used because no state of emergency has been declared.


Anyways, the government in Kiev promised last week amnesty to the Donetsk separatists if they surrendered, and change in legislation to allow local referendums. The response: quick occupation of more police stations and administrative buildings in other cities.

[Syt]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27011605

Ukraine to fight pro-Russia forces

Ukraine's president says a full-scale operation involving the army will be launched in the east after pro-Russian militants seized government buildings.

Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov said he would not allow a repetition of what happened in Crimea which was annexed by Russia last month.

His live televised address from parliament came after pro-Russian forces targeted half a dozen cities.

Earlier, Nato's secretary general voiced concern at events in the region.

And the US ambassador to the UN said the attacks this weekend bore the "tell-tale signs of Moscow's involvement." But the Kremlin denies involvement in events in eastern Ukraine.

Early on Sunday Ukrainian authorities said they launched an "anti-terror operation" after armed men took over the city of Sloviansk.

A Ukrainian officer was killed in a gun battle in the city, and there are reports the Ukrainian operation has been halted.

But both sides suffered a number of casualties, interim Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said.

Eastern Ukraine has a large Russian-speaking population and has seen a series of protests since the ousting of Ukraine's pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych in February.

'Sowing discord'

"We will not allow Russia to repeat the Crimean scenario in the eastern regions of Ukraine," said President Turchynov.

"The aggressor... is continuing to sow disorder in the east of the country."

But Mr Turchynov offered not to prosecute militants who gave up their weapons by early Monday.

Nato chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen's statement on Sunday drew parallels with some aspects of last month's seizure of Crimea.

He said the "reappearance of men with specialised Russian weapons and identical uniforms without insignia, as previously worn by Russian troops during Russia's illegal and illegitimate seizure of Crimea, is a grave development".

A Nato source told the BBC the organisation believed that "Russian forces have been involved in the seizure of some of the buildings".

And the US ambassador to the UN said the attacks on police and other buildings in eastern Ukraine had "telltale signs of Moscow's involvement".

"It's professional, co-ordinated. Nothing grass-roots about it," ambassador Samantha Power told ABC News.

"The forces are doing in each of the six or seven cities they have been active in exactly the same thing."

Turning violent

On Saturday, armed men took over police stations and official buildings in Sloviansk, Kramatorsk and Druzhkovka.

Similar accounts emerged of armed men dressed in camouflage arriving in buses in Sloviansk and Kramatorsk and storming the police stations.

BBC reporters in Sloviansk said the gunmen were well-organised and quickly established control throughout the town. Checkpoints had been set up on the main roads into the town.

In other developments:

* Rival rallies turned violent in the eastern city of Kharkiv - Ukraine's second biggest - with reports of 10 people injured
* Pro-Russian activists wielding clubs surround Kharkiv's city council, with mayor Henadiy Kernes reportedly inside
* Unconfirmed reports suggested official buildings had also been taken over in two other cities - Mariupol and Yenakievo.
* Pro-Russian demonstrators continued occupying the main administrative building in the regional capital Donetsk, which they have held for one week
* A protest leader told the BBC that the activists in Sloviansk took action to support the Donetsk sit-in.

Interior Minister Avakov labelled the weekend actions a "display of aggression by Russia".

Announcing the operation to clear the activists, he warned people to stay in their homes in Sloviansk.

"The separatists are shooting to kill without warning against the approaching special forces," he said,

He later said Ukrainian forces had been attacked at a checkpoint on the way to Sloviansk, and at least one officer had been killed and five others wounded.

An unknown number of militants were also wounded, he said.

Witnesses at the police station said there was no sign yet of any clashes, and the centre of the town was quiet.

Jonathan Marcus
BBC diplomatic correspondent

The warning by Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen is clear and to the point.

Many of the units (I use the word advisedly) involved in the initial take-over of buildings in several cities in eastern Ukraine look like organised, professional military forces.

This is exactly what was seen at the outset of Russia's Crimea operation - armed men with no clear insignia, but with all the hall-marks of the Russian military.

The Ukraine crisis looks to have moved into a higher gear this weekend. Experts say that the events look neither spontaneous nor unplanned.

The fear is that, just as in Crimea, the Russian government is seeking to use the lack of clarity as to who exactly is involved to gain time to create facts on the ground.

At the same time it is threatening that any response by Ukrainian security forces will only make matters worse.

[Legbiter]

Uke's will have to fight and put some Russians into the dirt if they want freedom from Moscow. Maybe even credibly threaten to blow up the Russian pipelines leading to the West. Make the cost of Russian "victory" unbearably high.

[HVC]

Uke's will have to fight and put some Russians into the dirt if they want freedom from Moscow. Maybe even credibly threaten to blow up the Russian pipelines leading to the West. Make the cost of Russian "victory" unbearably high.

they can't blow up the pipelines because that'll turn the west against them. Germany needs that sweet sweet gas.

[The Brain]

Uke's will have to fight and put some Russians into the dirt if they want freedom from Moscow. Maybe even credibly threaten to blow up the Russian pipelines leading to the West. Make the cost of Russian "victory" unbearably high.

they can't blow up the pipelines because that'll turn the west against them. Germany needs that sweet sweet gas.

[Iormlund]

Uke's will have to fight and put some Russians into the dirt if they want freedom from Moscow. Maybe even credibly threaten to blow up the Russian pipelines leading to the West. Make the cost of Russian "victory" unbearably high.

they can't blow up the pipelines because that'll turn the west against them. Germany needs that sweet sweet gas.

Germany can get gas now directly via Baltic pipeline.

[Admiral Yi]

I read in the Economist that 4/5 of Russian gas exports to Europe go through Ukraine.  The Baltic pipeline doesn't have enough capacity to handle all that.

[HVC]

Uke's will have to fight and put some Russians into the dirt if they want freedom from Moscow. Maybe even credibly threaten to blow up the Russian pipelines leading to the West. Make the cost of Russian "victory" unbearably high.

they can't blow up the pipelines because that'll turn the west against them. Germany needs that sweet sweet gas.

not the Zyklon B kind

[dps]

Uke's will have to fight and put some Russians into the dirt if they want freedom from Moscow. Maybe even credibly threaten to blow up the Russian pipelines leading to the West. Make the cost of Russian "victory" unbearably high.

they can't blow up the pipelines because that'll turn the west against them. Germany needs that sweet sweet gas.

not the Zyklon B kind

Well of course Germany doesn't need Zyklon B anymore.

They've no Jews left.

[CountDeMoney]

The fear is that, just as in Crimea, the Russian government is seeking to use the lack of clarity as to who exactly is involved to gain time to create facts on the ground.

Then Moscow can't really complain when Ukrainian security forces start lining up these guys on the sidewalk and summarily execute them with a polite bullet in the back of the head once they retake these facilities, now can they?

Filthy fucking Russians.  What a dirty fucking race of subhuman filth.

[mongers]

American ambassador to UN, Sam Powers ( basketball player), speaking now in emergency UN security council meeting.