Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[OttoVonBismarck]

I have to agree with Trump on this, as per Newsweek:

Trump made clear his thoughts on the situation surrounding Diego Garcia in a post on Truth Social, writing: "I have had very productive discussions with Prime Minister Keir Starmer about the Island of Diego Garcia. It is the site of a major U.S. Military Base, strategically situated in the middle of the Indian Ocean and, therefore, of great importance to the National Security of the United States.

"We have the most powerful Military in the World. Our Military Operations, over the course of the last year, were successful because of the strength of our warfighters, modern capability of our equipment and, very importantly, the strategic location of our Military Bases for staging, and other reasons.

"I understand that the deal Prime Minister Starmer has made, according to many, the best he could make. However, if the lease deal, sometime in the future, ever falls apart, or anyone threatens or endangers U.S. operations and forces at our Base, I retain the right to Militarily secure and reinforce the American presence in Diego Garcia."

Mauritius needs to understand--however stupid the UK is, and it appears their feckless stupidity knows virtually no bounds based on the imbecilic agreement Starmer entered into with Mauritius, Diego Garcia will forever be a U.S. military base. It also, as long as they choose to remain, will be a joint U.K. base, but what it will never be is Mauritian, it will never be controlled by them, and America will never cede one inch of it to a weak and powerless African state which has no actual legitimate claim to it, regardless of what imbeciles in London think.

If they don't like it they can try to force us out of the islands and see how it turns out for them.

[Valmy]

he stopped party conference singing "The Red Flag" and changed the party symbol from a red flag to a red rose. He ran the first US style professional campaign.

This is what happens when bourgeois oppressors are allowed to infiltrate the party of the working class 

That Mandelson was leaking the most sensitive information to Epstein wasn't known - but who can possibly blame the security services for that. Mandelson lied to them which is both out of character and utterly insurmountable

Tony and Control at it again.

[Valmy]

If they don't like it they can try to force us out of the islands and see how it turns out for them.

Cool. I couldn't care less but I am glad you ready to fight for it.

[OttoVonBismarck]

If they don't like it they can try to force us out of the islands and see how it turns out for them.

Cool. I couldn't care less but I am glad you ready to fight for it.

Sane people care about our most important base in the Indian Ocean not falling to China.

[Sheilbh]

Tony and Control at it again.

Sadly I can't see that video.

But it reminded me (again) of Yes Prime Minister

[crazy canuck]

I think you are all conflicting two different facts.

It was known that he had associated with Epstein. It was poor political judgement to appoint somebody with that ass association.

But for some reason, many of you are saying that the connection with giving over state secrets should also have been known by some magical means absent the FBI sharing their files.

[Valmy]

But for some reason, many of you are saying that the connection with giving over state secrets should also have been known by some magical means absent the FBI sharing their files.

The long history of lazy and apathetic British intelligence letting high positioned lord so and so with obvious dodgy connections give away state secrets makes me skeptical they looked into it very thoroughly.

Still better than the US. It is common knowledge our government and elite is full of pedophile traitors and we don't care.

[crazy canuck]

But for some reason, many of you are saying that the connection with giving over state secrets should also have been known by some magical means absent the FBI sharing their files.

The long history of lazy and apathetic British intelligence letting high positioned lord so and so with obvious dodgy connections give away state secrets makes me skeptical they looked into it very thoroughly.

Still better than the US. It is common knowledge our government and elite is full of pedophile traitors and we don't care.

Why would they look into it thoroughly if there was no information or evidence it had occurred?

[Sheilbh]

I think you are all conflicting two different facts.

It was known that he had associated with Epstein. It was poor political judgement to appoint somebody with that ass association.

But for some reason, many of you are saying that the connection with giving over state secrets should also have been known by some magical means absent the FBI sharing their files.

I think that's all right, but there are two additional layers.

That Epstein and Mandelson knew each other was known and some photos had come out in 2022. That's known at the point in 2024 that Starmer appoints Mandelson as Ambassador (although as I say I think the bigger point is the extent to which Mandelson is an eminence grise for the key people around Starmer).

However between 2022 and 2024, there's a JP Morgan report into Epstein. It notes that in Britain Epstein had cultivated particularly close relationships with Prince Andrew and Lord Mandelson. Similarly it has since emerged that Mandelson stayed in Epstein's flat after Epstein's conviction. This was one of the things Badenoch got Starmer to confirm was in the security briefing on Mandelson. Obviously in 2024 we all knew there were lots of other Epstein files. This had been particularly reported in the FT, from a profile they did last year:

We are on our way north, on a high-speed Avanti train, when I ask Mandelson about his relationship with Epstein. "I regret ever meeting him or being introduced to him by his partner Ghislaine Maxwell," he says. "I regret even more the hurt he caused to many young women." An icy chill descends in Carriage J. "I'm not going to into this. It's an FT obsession and frankly you can all fuck off. OK?"

And this was basically one of Badenoch's line of questions yesterday - that Starmer had been warned that Mandelson had deep links with Epstein and continued to associate with him after his coviction (which Starmer confirmed the security briefing did say) and that basically it was a calculated risk.

But I think that is the way of thinking about the level of political mistake is that it's like appointing Prince Andrew and having him as a very significant advisor.

The other thing I'd flag - and not much has come out of this yet - is that Gordon Brown has made it known that as soon as the first tranche of new Epstein files came out in September (which led to Mandelson's first - or, actually, third resignation) he wrote to the Cabinet Office about leaking of sensitive information. I don't think he knew anything specific but I suspect there were queries he had from his time as PM during the crisis and this is Peter Mandelson's reputation - very charming, very witty, fabulous gossip but absolutely leaks to shape what's going on.

Part of that is also ancient New Labour beef which is another side of this. So Baroness Harman who has known Mandelson for 50+ years and very often (like Brown) ended up on the wrong side of Mandelson in New Labour fights was remarkable on this. "It's not a secret that he was a bad person [...] how can something be astonishing but also completely predictable at the same time? [...] so much was known about his bad character [...] he should be reflecting on why he made that appointment not angry at the evilness of Peter Mandelson." I totally agree with Harman's line that "to say 'he lied to me' makes him look weak and naive and gullible".

So you're right about the actual details not being known but there is Mandelson's character (he is always the scorpion in the scorpion and frog story) and also it was known that there would be more to come. So even if it wasn't this it would be something. And I think even at the level of what was known about Mandelson - that he was Prince Andrew level of closeness (and given that he's gay and there are still no suggestions of sexual impropriety by Mandelson - that means they must have been bonding over something else) with Epstein and was still close to him after his conviction - that raises questions beyond the appointment to ambassador about why he was still so important and influential with lots of people at the top of Labour. Like there is a basic question of taste and hygiene there.

We'll see what comes out. The Tories' "humble address" is actually very sweeping so we'll get the security documents and due diligence and briefings for Mandelson's appointment - but also messages and communications by ministers and advisors to Mandelson while he was ambassador. They will be redacted but by the parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee, not the civil service or the government and I think they've said they will be redacting for national security not embarrassment.

[crazy canuck]

If Brown was aware that Madelson had potentially leaked state secrets, and did nothing for all those years. Then that is a stunning indictment on Brown not the security service services in the UK.

If the whispers that were being told to Brown, which gave him knowledge that there were potential leaks, came from the security services, then I would agree with the people that are criticizing the background check.

That's what you've said in your post supports my criticism that you are completing the two things.  Yes it was very poor judgement to appoint somebody who was closely affiliated with Epstein.  But chastising a background check for "thoroughly" investigating a crime that they didn't know had been committed is not a valid criticism.

[Sheilbh]

I think your point is fair and as I say I basically agree, I'd just add to it the additional point of Mandelson's own character - as I say he was nicknamed the "Prince of Darkness". I think it is shocking that he was leaking very sensitive information that was basically insider trading to a mate - but it would not have been shocking to discover he was leaking it to a friendly journalist. So that is sort of in character.

On Brown - he wrote that letter in September after the first tranche of further revelations emerged about Mandelson.

My suspicion with Brown is that he is very paranoid (not quite as paranoid as Harold Wilson who thought the security services were plotting a coup - and I'm a bit of a Wilson-truther on that ). But, often, justifiably so. His operation in the Treasury and then Number 10 was absolutely brutal. But so were Peter Mandelson and Alastair Campbell. Even putting the Iraq war to one side I am always surprised at Alastair Campbell's emergence as a voice for standards in public life and as a mental health campaigner given he has admitted to being the person who briefed a friendly commentator that Brown was "psychologically flawed" (he has also subsequently apologised for it - but I don't think i was an uncharacteristic moment).

So I suspect Brown has long thought there were leaks in his time in office, saw the Epstein revelations and what he knew about Peter Mandelson and put two and two together.

I'd add another really fascinating detail via Faisal Islam from the emails I shared further up the thread when Mandelson was advising Jamie Dimon to "mildly threaten" the then Chancellor, Alistair Darling. Darling's memoir describes a call from Dimon (we now know) just after Mandelson's email. He said he normally treats calls as confidential but as fairly accurate reports were in the press he would write about it:

Mr Dimon was angry, very angry. He pointed out that his bank had not been the cause of this crisis. That was true, but, I said, in 2008 his bank, like every other bank, had depended heavily on both ourselves and the US government in order to stay in business. He said that his bank bought a lot of UK debt and he wondered if that was now such a good idea. I pointed out that they bought our debt because it was a good business deal for them. He went on to say that they were thinking of building a new office in London but they had to reconsider that now. I knew full well that they were considering consolidating their offices in London and I guessed correctly that to teach us a lesson they would postpone their decision until after the general election. That they did.

Mr Dimon then went on to say that I was punishing the many Veterans he employed in his office doing fairly humdrum jobs. I said I doubted that. The Veterans were working in the US and were beyond the reach of UK taxes, although I did say I was pleasantly surprised that he paid humble employees such high salaries that they would be affected by the bonus tax aimed at top earners.

Islam's the BBC Economics Editor (then with Channel 4) and notes that Darling was unmoved by Dimon's threats and had cordial meetings with him later, adding: "Darling told me how almost a full house of bankers rang him up with what seemed like a coordinated script complaining about the bonus tax, so inept that he started narrating the script back to them, because he'd heard it all before"

But an interesting insight into some of the "bond vigilantes" and Islam says he's spent the last 15 years wondering about the gilts market threat - and now we know how it happened.

I'd also add the current Governor of the BofE, Andrew Bailey, worked in the Treasury when Darling was Chancellor. Darling died a couple of years ago. Bailey was asked about the Mandelson revelations and got quite emotional noting the honour and probity of Alistair Darling compared with the man who was advising American bankers to "mildly threaten" him. (Worth noting that Gordon Brown's Number 10 was also briefing against Darling who later said Brown unleashed the "forces of hell" on him - Gordon Brown's spin doctor, Damian McBride, was later forced out after revelations he'd been planning to set up websites to spread fake sexual and personal rumours about the wives of David Cameron and George Osborne.)

[Jacob]

Dimon sounds like a bit of a twat.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah - though I think Darling comes out of that pretty well Admittedly it is from his memoir.

Also just a slight update. The Met have searched Mandelson's two homes and spoken to him, but not under caution or arrest.

Pressure's continuing to mount on Starmer - lots of stuff going on but it's not great. One thing I'd flag is there are increasing reports that Angela Rayner expects to be exonerated on the tax issue by HMRC and is apparently preparing to launch a leadership bid. Her allies are also briefing that she advised Starmer against appoint Mandelson. Rayner gets on very well with the King, but in opposition she was reaching out to the Palace and government that they needed to move a lot more aggressively on Andrew and that she'd offer cross party support.

[Tonitrus]

Dimon sounds like a bit of a twat.

I mean, he is a banker. 

And that bank is named after another well-known twat of a banker. 

[mongers]

I feel the below story might be worthy of starting a new 'UK infrastructure and planning' thread for:

Long wait for station lifts could be stalled again

Long wait for station lifts could be stalled again

The lifts at Pokesdown Station have been out of use for more than 40 years, according to campaigners

4 February 2026

A long-running campaign for lifts at a railway station has suffered a setback after a council said it could withdraw its financial contribution.

The lifts at Pokesdown Station, near AFC Bournemouth's Vitality Stadium, have been out of use for more than 40 years, according to campaigners.

In 2021, Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole (BCP) Council pledged £2.6m to support work by South Western Railway (SWR) and Network Rail.

However, the council said it could no longer justify the expense due to increased borrowing costs.

The 42 steep steps at Pokesdown Station have caused injuries and are a barrier to wheelchair users and others.

In 2014, former MP Tobias Ellwood presented a 1,200-signature petition calling for an upgrade.

New lifts were due to be installed by SWR by the end of 2019, according to its franchise agreement.

However, the £7m project has repeatedly stalled due to reported financial issues.

......

Years ago I live within a mile of this station, but only used it a couple of times, it remains one of the grottiest stations in Southern England, not to be used after dark, as it's in the most rundown bit of the Bournemouth/Poole conurbation.

IIRC the old station offices at the top and directly blocking the lift entrances was a bric-a-brac shop at one stage, shows you just how motivated the authorities have been to get this sorted out.