The EU thread

[Tamas]

Talking of annexing, was thinking it would be great if Ireland annexed us, it would be a great way of coming back to the EU. Would never happen, of course, but nice to think about it.

BTW Trump is really showcasing the folly of Brexit. We have locked ourselves out of the EU gate, and what we are left with is groveling to the big psycho outside the gate so it'd refrain from eating us while he thinks us entertainingly subservient.

Do recall that as UK citizens, we are entitled to live and work in Ireland.

Meh. Rather Poland for me, then.

Very similar type of life to the UK

Well, Ireland, like Poland, has been, on average, on the wrong end of the... uhm, phallos of history. Might as well settle somewhere familiar then.

However, I am not looking to abandon ship. This is home now. But that makes me more frustrated about things like Brexit, not less.

[garbon]

Well, Ireland, like Poland, has been, on average, on the wrong end of the... uhm, phallos of history. Might as well settle somewhere familiar then.

However, I am not looking to abandon ship. This is home now. But that makes me more frustrated about things like Brexit, not less.

Understandable.

[Jacob]

On the EU - if I had influence on the direction of the EU I would look at finding ways to attack the influence and standing of the pseudo-oligarchs who are driving the attacks on Europe; so Thiel, Musk, Lauder, and others. They have declared themselves enemies of the EU and are actively pushing for its destruction and the subordination of its peoples.

There's no need to let them operate with impunity inside the EU's economies or political spheres.

[Valmy]

On the EU - if I had influence on the direction of the EU I would look at finding ways to attack the influence and standing of the pseudo-oligarchs who are driving the attacks on Europe; so Thiel, Musk, Lauder, and others. They have declared themselves enemies of the EU and are actively pushing for its destruction and the subordination of its peoples.

There's no need to let them operate with impunity inside the EU's economies or political spheres.

Why the Democrats allowed obvious partisan actors like Musk continue to get government contracts blew my mind.

Don't make the same mistake. Ban these bad actors from your shores. Punish them for attempting to weild undemocratic political power.

[HisMajestyBOB]

On the EU - if I had influence on the direction of the EU I would look at finding ways to attack the influence and standing of the pseudo-oligarchs who are driving the attacks on Europe; so Thiel, Musk, Lauder, and others. They have declared themselves enemies of the EU and are actively pushing for its destruction and the subordination of its peoples.

There's no need to let them operate with impunity inside the EU's economies or political spheres.

Why the Democrats allowed obvious partisan actors like Musk continue to get government contracts blew my mind.

Don't make the same mistake. Ban these bad actors from your shores. Punish them for attempting to weild undemocratic political power.

 

[Sheilbh]

Why the Democrats allowed obvious partisan actors like Musk continue to get government contracts blew my mind.

Don't make the same mistake. Ban these bad actors from your shores. Punish them for attempting to weild undemocratic political power.

Not just get government contracts - from my understanding, without policy decisions under Obama on roll out of EVs and Space X contracts, Musk would have gone under.

To be honest I think part of it was that they were not read/understood as they are now, then. I remember the glowing, excited articles about the future of politics following Obama's campaign which was apparently based on microtargeting. The exact same technology and platforms that were, in 2016, weaponise in a plot against democracy. I don't know with that sort of thing or with Musk the extent to which they have changed (ie we were right in 2012 - and they're not the same person) or the extent to which our perspective has shifted and we read it wrong then? I'm genuinely not sure (my own view is probably just that wealth and power and their class position will always be hostile to democratic power - but so are the cuddly billionaires ).

On the EU, there are mechanisms for doing that sort of thing - like the Digital Services Act which has mechanisms to act against the platforms. My own view is the real problem is that it would be a political decision and require politics - Europe operates at the level of technical policy making and "rule of law". There are rules and laws around how and when the EU could do that sort of thing. The EU successfully dealt with Microsoft over competition - but it took about a decade of deeply technical work and court cases. If your view is around threats to democracy then that's not going to be a viable solution - and that is the EU's MO (for very good reasons). I think part of the EU reluctance is also a bit like why Europe is not just spending Russian assets - it could be a very dangerous precedent.

I mentioned elsewhere that just last month the other problem is that for some of these services there is no European alternative. I mentioned it but the French intelligence service recently extended their contract with Palantir (agreed last month). This was a deal they entered into very quickly after the Bataclan attack and the renewal was framed around a successful Olympics. For better or worse, Europe has not developed a big data powered panopticon that will help intelligence agencies prevent terrorist attacks. As I say there's a better and worse side of that but I think that is an important part of the context for this - that at least in part the trade off decision-makers have is do you put money in Peter Thiel's pocket, or do you decommission a supplier that is credibly reducing the risk of another Bataclan attack? I hate to say it but we'd be in a better position if there were European companies specialising in spying on us all - sadly they're all American or Israeli.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Which is what De Wever also mentioned in that little video I posted over in the Greenland thread: Europe is not sovereign digitally and it needs to be. The Chinese are because they've been smart (and cutthroat, and thieving too) about it.