Go Persians, go!

[mongers]

If even 10% of the reports coming out of Iran are true then the protests have been drowned in a sea of blood basically.

Yeah.  It would be sad... If they were Palestinian.

Must be time for a new skin for that drum of yours.

[Jacob]

I hope the Iranian people succeed.

It seems international responses have been fairly muted so far...

I guess Russia is too busy to do much yet, while the West is in complete disarray so lacks a unified response.

I know Trump has threatened attacking Iran, but I assume it's mostly bluster at this point?

What about Europe and China? I'm assuming some statements, but little action?

[Admiral Yi]

That's usually the way. Look at the first gen Cuban exiles. Theres a reason people had the means and connections to flee.

I always thought it was because they were property owners.  what kind of corruption did they practice?

[crazy canuck]

Wasn't Iran relatively secular and modern in the 70s?

Yes, but Very corrupt.

Quite a few of the 'exile' families were part of the Shah's kleptocracy and already established abroad, come the revolution they couldn't return, but then got to cloak themselves in the exile banner, rather than being part of the reason for the revolution in the first place.

Maybe some, but you are overstating it when you say "quite a few".  And what do you mean by "cloak themselves in the exile banner".  Almost all fled after the revolution with nothing but the clothes they could carry. And many of those had a hard road before they made it to places like Canada.

[Valmy]

If even 10% of the reports coming out of Iran are true then the protests have been drowned in a sea of blood basically.

The IRGC was never going to give up their power without a fight.

[Sheilbh]

I know Trump has threatened attacking Iran, but I assume it's mostly bluster at this point?

I hope I'm wrong but I slightly worry there's a bit of Bush and the Kurds about this.

Again I hope I'm wrong but I'd expect the regime to crush this as they have previous movements (like the Green Revolution) in 2009 - and protests are regular. But ultimately it's a very brutal regime and Khamenei is a revolutionary from 1979.

Maybe some, but you are overstating it when you say "quite a few".  And what do you mean by "cloak themselves in the exile banner".  Almost all fled after the revolution with nothing but the clothes they could carry. And many of those had a hard road before they made it to places like Canada.

I think that's true for most.

But there were also many who fled with their jewels or to their Swiss bank accounts from their systematic looting of the country (I think these are often the ones yearning for a Shah). I think it's a bit like White Russians where there are lot who fled with nothing and some who flet with Faberge eggs. There's been a recent novel about the insanely privilege Iranian emigres in the US flitting between LA (Tehrangeles), Aspen, New York and Houston - it's called The Persians and good fun.

Wasn't Iran relatively secular and modern in the 70s?

I think it's a bit like Afghanistan in that - yes it was in the cities for certain classes, many of whom were basically feudal landowners with estates in the countryside that were not modern or secular. I could be wrong but I think that rural, traditional, more religious and more conservative class of former peasants is basically who the Basij militias are recruited from and they're normally the forces unleashed on protests.

I suspect in that sense Iran is probably more modern now.

[Tonitrus]

I just heard on a BBC radio tidbit with an interview of a professer of American studies at Tehran University saying that zero protestors have died and any video showing casualties are showing the Mossad agents that are currently battling the security forces.

That's quite a lot of Mossad agents that have been embedded in Iran.

[crazy canuck]

I know Trump has threatened attacking Iran, but I assume it's mostly bluster at this point?

I hope I'm wrong but I slightly worry there's a bit of Bush and the Kurds about this.

Again I hope I'm wrong but I'd expect the regime to crush this as they have previous movements (like the Green Revolution) in 2009 - and protests are regular. But ultimately it's a very brutal regime and Khamenei is a revolutionary from 1979.

Maybe some, but you are overstating it when you say "quite a few".  And what do you mean by "cloak themselves in the exile banner".  Almost all fled after the revolution with nothing but the clothes they could carry. And many of those had a hard road before they made it to places like Canada.

I think that's true for most.

But there were also many who fled with their jewels or to their Swiss bank accounts from their systematic looting of the country (I think these are often the ones yearning for a Shah). I think it's a bit like White Russians where there are lot who fled with nothing and some who flet with Faberge eggs. There's been a recent novel about the insanely privilege Iranian emigres in the US flitting between LA (Tehrangeles), Aspen, New York and Houston - it's called The Persians and good fun.

Wasn't Iran relatively secular and modern in the 70s?

I think it's a bit like Afghanistan in that - yes it was in the cities for certain classes, many of whom were basically feudal landowners with estates in the countryside that were not modern or secular. I could be wrong but I think that rural, traditional, more religious and more conservative class of former peasants is basically who the Basij militias are recruited from and they're normally the forces unleashed on protests.

I suspect in that sense Iran is probably more modern now.

You are wrong about your last paragraph. It was not at all like Afghanistan. It had a large middle class and was thoroughly modern on the cities.  And the countryside was not fuedal. Rather villages operated more like communes.

[mongers]

I just heard on a BBC radio tidbit with an interview of a professer of American studies at Tehran University saying that zero protestors have died and any video showing casualties are showing the Mossad agents that are currently battling the security forces.

That's quite a lot of Mossad agents that have been embedded in Iran.

If it's the guy I'm thinking of, name escapes me, then he's a straight-up regime mouthpiece/ apologist; I don't know why western media interview him.

Edit:
This bloke? :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Marandi

[Tonitrus]

I didn't catch the name, but the profile fits.

To be fair, the BBC interviewer challenged him pretty well I think.

[Sheilbh]

You are wrong about your last paragraph. It was not at all like Afghanistan. It had a large middle class and was thoroughly modern on the cities.  And the countryside was not fuedal. Rather villages operated more like communes.

I think you misread my point on Afghanistan.

On feudalism - it literally was feudal until the 1960s/70s (and in my head there's nothing about a communal village life that contradicts feudalism - seems to me they often go together). I think the Shah's attempt at land reform was one of his big pitches as a reforming "progressive" monarch. But my understanding - and I could be wrong - is that even after land reform the traditional landowners still earned huge wealth from and were very powerful in their old estates. From what I understand a bit like the situation in Pakistan (strikingly, another US ally against communism but not frontline states like Taiwan and South Korea?).

Again from what I understand, I think a lot of the change from land reform has now accrued to the state, elites around politics and groups like the IRGC.

[Razgovory]

If even 10% of the reports coming out of Iran are true then the protests have been drowned in a sea of blood basically.

Yeah.  It would be sad... If they were Palestinian.

Must be time for a new skin for that drum of yours.

Saw a video of someone asking people about the dead Iranians at a pro-Pal march in Britain. 

"Who cares?  Free, Free Palestine!"

Anyway, reading from some of the Pro-Pal sites, it's nice to know that some mass murders are justified.

[crazy canuck]

You are wrong about your last paragraph. It was not at all like Afghanistan. It had a large middle class and was thoroughly modern on the cities.  And the countryside was not fuedal. Rather villages operated more like communes.

I think you misread my point on Afghanistan.

On feudalism - it literally was feudal until the 1960s/70s (and in my head there's nothing about a communal village life that contradicts feudalism - seems to me they often go together). I think the Shah's attempt at land reform was one of his big pitches as a reforming "progressive" monarch. But my understanding - and I could be wrong - is that even after land reform the traditional landowners still earned huge wealth from and were very powerful in their old estates. From what I understand a bit like the situation in Pakistan (strikingly, another US ally against communism but not frontline states like Taiwan and South Korea?).

Again from what I understand, I think a lot of the change from land reform has now accrued to the state, elites around politics and groups like the IRGC.

No, I understand your point about the comparison ito Afghanistan, and you continue to be wrong in your characterization of Iran as being feudal. To the extent it looked that way to a casual observer, the American and UK regime change that brought the Shaw to power are largely to blame. 

And come to think of it, the views you are expressing here are a good illustration of the kind of propaganda used by the Brits to justify their actions, so I suppose it is understandable that it has been internalized as a kind of accepted wisdom.

[garbon]

Ah the old when you can be a dick, go full dick.

[Tamas]

Because of these events I listened to the Rest is Politics again. Whish I didn't. I can't bear their style, it's like a couple of people from around 2000 looking at our world through a time machine's TV screen and commenting on it.