Go Persians, go!

[crazy canuck]

Ah the old when you can be a dick, go full dick.

When I hear uninformed stereotypes being trotted out, yeah I call like I see it.

[Norgy]

I am reading "King of Kings" by Scott Anderson.
Even from the point of view (with hindsight) of an American journalist, the shah was terrible. But still not as terrible as this current government.

The blood on the streets was quite common back then too, but the Islamic Republic undoubtedly has cranked the bloodletting up quite a few dozen notches.

The discussion about "who lost Iran" is moot. The shah lost Iran. Simple as that. Anderson points to the CIA basically not being asked any questions about the goings on in Iran, and not bothering much to find out then. It seemed nobody, including the revolutionaries, could really see the regime falling, yet it happened so fast that I suppose we should not have been that surprised by the collapse of the Soviet bloc.

I have through the years known a few Iranians in exile here. Most remember the shah with mixed feelings, all are very clear in their view that the Islamic Republic was not what they wanted.

While this is more guesswork than anything tangible or verifiable, I do think the "opposition" today as well is not a very homogenous group.

[Sheilbh]

No, I understand your point about the comparison ito Afghanistan, and you continue to be wrong in your characterization of Iran as being feudal. To the extent it looked that way to a casual observer, the American and UK regime change that brought the Shaw to power are largely to blame. 

And come to think of it, the views you are expressing here are a good illustration of the kind of propaganda used by the Brits to justify their actions, so I suppose it is understandable that it has been internalized as a kind of accepted wisdom.

Sorry I really don't understand how this ties to what I said. I'd be interested to understand because I'm not sure.

I am reading "King of Kings" by Scott Anderson.
Even from the point of view (with hindsight) of an American journalist, the shah was terrible. But still not as terrible as this current government.

The blood on the streets was quite common back then too, but the Islamic Republic undoubtedly has cranked the bloodletting up quite a few dozen notches.

Yeah I feel about it in a similar way to Russia. Impossible to not sympathise with the revolution and think it was fully justified (even if the Shah got off lightly), while at the same time regretting the political force that seized their chances in the revolution.

I have through the years known a few Iranians in exile here. Most remember the shah with mixed feelings, all are very clear in their view that the Islamic Republic was not what they wanted.

While this is more guesswork than anything tangible or verifiable, I do think the "opposition" today as well is not a very homogenous group.

I agree. I think there's a very hard-core of basically unhinged ultra-monarchists (I suspect heavily concentrated in the Iranian emigres who fled to Beverly Hills with healthy Swiss bank accounts) - they've got the money so they're the most vocal. But both within and outside Iran I suspect the vast majority of the opposition may hate the regime but have no desire to see a Pahlavi come back.

[crazy canuck]

@ Norgy, King of Kings is a great book 

I also recommend All the Shaw's Men which is a narrative history of how the US were first supporters of the new democratically elected government of Iran, but then there was a change of policy and the the CIA took steps to overthrow it and install the Shaw. When people talk about the corruption that existed prior to the revolution, this is the story of the root of that corruption.

The Americans being unreliable allies has a long history...


https://www.indigo.ca/en-ca/all-the-shahs-men-an-american-coup-and-the-roots-of-middle-east-terror/9781681620619.html

[Tonitrus]

Surpise...Trump TACO's on Iran in record time.

[Tonitrus]

President Donald Trump made a vague statement Wednesday that he's been told "on good authority" that plans for executions in Iran have stopped...

https://apnews.com/article/trump-iran-protesters-executions-195edfa07111be782db71af07b538fdc

[Razgovory]

Well, the communists will be pleased.

[grumbler]

The Brits were far more responsible for the installation of the Shah than the bumbling CIA. Their guys just couldn't brag about it due to the Official Secrets Act.

[crazy canuck]

The Brits were far more responsible for the installation of the Shah than the bumbling CIA. Their guys just couldn't brag about it due to the Official Secrets Act.

Yeah, I think there is a lot to that.

[Razgovory]

[Tamas]

President Donald Trump made a vague statement Wednesday that he's been told "on good authority" that plans for executions in Iran have stopped...

https://apnews.com/article/trump-iran-protesters-executions-195edfa07111be782db71af07b538fdc

"good authority" - Vladimir P.