Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (11.8%)
British - Leave
7 (6.9%)
Other European - Remain
21 (20.6%)
Other European - Leave
6 (5.9%)
ROTW - Remain
36 (35.3%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (19.6%)

Total Members Voted: 100

Gups

Quote from: Sheilbh on July 22, 2025, 08:28:32 PMSeparately with all the troubles the government is having, some interesting stuff going on on the rest of the left.

Andy Burnham today doing an exclusive with the Times accusing ministers and civil servants of deliberately misleading the public with "false" and "unfounded" briefings about the proposed Hillsborough Law. He says that they are "fighting hard to preserve the status quo" which is what's led to scandals like infected blood, Post Office and, obviously, Hillsborough. The main thrust of the law is to introduce a legal "duty of candour" with criminal sanctions for state employees. The KC who wrote the draft legislation and has been involved in talks between government and the families has said some civil servants are trying to "subvert and destroy the entire process".

Meanwhile Unite, the second largest union in the country, has suspended  Angela Rayner the Labour deputy leader. The General Secretary, Sharon Graham, ran on a very workerist/industrial focused campaign and, by all accounts, has almost no interest in being a big player in Labour party politics. But Unite are a very significant funder for the Labour party (about £350k in 2024) so she matters even if she doesn't want to play the typical "union baron" role.

However she's on the left and was the only union boss who wouldn't endorse Labour's manifesto in 2024. Her unions equal pay claims are causing government a lot of problems in Local government (this was the issue Rayner was suspended over as her department covers local government). She's also just given an interview saying Unite may vote to disaffiliate from Labour - meaning no more funding.

FWIW it isn't just a standard left critique and I have a lot of sympathy with her comments (which are what you'd expect from a union boss representing these workers):
QuoteThen comes a critique to confound the stereotypes that still shape perceptions of the union movement at Westminster: that some of its leaders are unreconstructed Corbynites more comfortable addressing the Cuba Solidarity Campaign than the country at large. On the contrary, says Graham, this Labour government isn't patriotic enough: "You have to believe in Britain." She wants ministers to change the law so that all major infrastructure projects are built with British steel. "Taxpayers' money is building these projects, building hospitals. Why are they not using UK steel? Ministers say, well, look, Sharon, there would be a difficulty with that. But not if you made it a critical infrastructure area of the economy. That's what other countries do."

Graham says the same of the defence industry, many of whose workers pay their dues to Unite. "I spend a lot of my time at the moment with defence companies, pushing the government in terms of spending more on defence. I am very vocal about the fact that we need to spend more money on defence, but then you need to buy British. We are hugely skilled at this."

No arm of the state escapes her criticism: this time it's the RAF, whose orders for Eurofighter Typhoon jets built by BAE have dried up. "How can we sell British Typhoons to the world if we don't buy British Typhoons? It's a no-brainer, and equally, it's good for national security." Whatever this is, it definitely isn't the Corbynism some lazily assume to be the default worldview in offices like this one.

Next up is Ed Miliband, the energy secretary. Like Gary Smith, the GMB union leader, Graham thinks his net-zero policies are putting workers out of jobs. As long as oil remains in the North Sea, Unite thinks it should be drilled. "I think people are going to think the net-zero plan is a joke," says Graham, who is careful to clarify that she isn't a climate sceptic. "We can't offset our carbon responsibility to other countries and say, well, we're all right because we've given away all our jobs over here. It's not a serious plan to me. And they're going to have to get serious on it. Ed Miliband needs to change pace." Nor does she share Starmer's evangelism for AI, which she describes as theft of intellectual property from workers, be they a creative or a Unite bus driver whose routes train automated vehicles.

Interestingly some other Unite NEC members were at an online event with Zarah Sultana and Jeremy Corbyn last night - and there's some who are talking of disaffiliating with Labour in order to fund their party. Corbyn and Sultana both want union involvement. But, as I say, Graham is very workerist so she's quite dismissive of that idea.

She must have her hands full dealing with the McCluskey allegations which are pretty astounding

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jul/22/len-mccluskey-took-private-jet-flights-arranged-by-building-firm-report-claims

Sheilbh

Yeah. I'm actually a Unite member so got the email from her on this and the whole thing was so corrupt. I mean they've only released a redacted version of the report, as approved by the police because investigations are ongoing (although I see that Joe Anderson and Derek Hatton's trial won't start until 2027 so unlikely to be resolved any time soon).
Let's bomb Russia!

Oexmelin

Que le grand cric me croque !

Sheilbh

:lol: People have been nicknaming a Sultana-Corbyn party after a chocolate bar here: fruit and nut.
Let's bomb Russia!

Josquius

#31069
That is good  :lol:
Oh they have to choose a purple colour scheme
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Tamas


Oexmelin

Quote from: Sheilbh on July 24, 2025, 03:19:21 AM:lol: People have been nicknaming a Sultana-Corbyn party after a chocolate bar here: fruit and nut.

 :lol: very good

(We have fruit and nut in Canada (as we have/used to have most Cadbury chocolate or indeed, most British confectionery: Quality Street, Mackintosh toffee, Terry's oranges, etc). I used to love it as a kid, and would typically get a Mr Fruit and Nut bunny for Easter)
Que le grand cric me croque !

crazy canuck

Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.
Awarded 17 Zoupa points

In several surveys, the overwhelming first choice for what makes Canada unique is multiculturalism. This, in a world collapsing into stupid, impoverishing hatreds, is the distinctly Canadian national project.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Oexmelin on July 24, 2025, 06:29:02 AM:lol: very good

(We have fruit and nut in Canada (as we have/used to have most Cadbury chocolate or indeed, most British confectionery: Quality Street, Mackintosh toffee, Terry's oranges, etc). I used to love it as a kid, and would typically get a Mr Fruit and Nut bunny for Easter)
Yeah I loved a Fruit and Nut as a kid - and glad you're not stuck with American chocolate :x

So the launch is on - name, leadership etc tbc at a founding conference. I think the four Gaza Independents already signing up (meaning this party will leapfrog ahead of Reform).
QuoteIt's time for a new kind of political party. One that belongs to you.

The system is rigged.

The system is rigged when 4.5 million children live in poverty in the sixth richest country in the world. The system is rigged when giant corporations make a fortune from rising bills. The system is rigged when this government says there is no money for the poor, but billions for war.

We cannot accept these injustices – and neither should you.

We will only fix the crises in our society with a mass redistribution of wealth and power. That means taxing the very richest in our society. That means an NHS free of privatisation and bringing energy, water, rail and mail into public ownership. That means investing in a massive council-house building programme. That means standing up to fossil fuel giants putting their profits before our planet.

Meanwhile, millions of people are horrified by the government's shameful complicity in genocide. We believe in the radical idea that all human life has equal value. That is why we defend the right to protest for Palestine. That is why we demand an end to all arms sales to Israel. And that is why we will carry on campaigning for the only path to peace: a free and independent Palestine.

Our movement is made up of people of all faiths and none. The great dividers want you to think that the problems in our society are caused by migrants or refugees. They're not. They are caused by an economic system that protects the interests of corporations and billionaires. It is ordinary people who create the wealth – and it is ordinary people who have the power to put it back where it belongs.

It's time for a new kind of political party. One that is rooted in our communities, trade unions and social movements. One that builds power in all regions and nations. One that belongs to you. 

Sign up at www.yourparty.uk to be part of the founding process, leading to an inaugural conference. At this conference, you will decide the party's direction, the model of leadership and the policies that are needed to transform society. That is how we can build a democratic movement that take on the rich and powerful - and  win.

Real change is coming.

              Jeremy Corbyn MP                                   Zarah Sultana MP

There's a lot of quite sniffy commentary about the launch which has been bungled and the name (for now) etc. Including one journalist reading a text from a Labour SpAd saying about their comms "they literally do this for us." Which is fine - except I think the media and the wing of the Labour party that SpAd is from struggled to work out how to cover or respond to Corbyn for four years - so it feels a little like a Mitt Romney aide in 2022 sending lols to journalists about Trump. It might be correct, but I'm not sure why they're that confident. Especially given that a party that didn't even exist was polling at 10-15% (and in some polls ahead of Labour) and now it's here...
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas

I would have a closer look at their policy plans if Corbyn weren't involved.

Josquius

Quote from: Tamas on July 24, 2025, 02:58:18 PMI would have a closer look at their policy plans if Corbyn weren't involved.
:lol:
Yeah, me too.
A lot of what is said there is right up my street.
But Corbyn.
And not even already iffy and incompetent 2016 Corbyn.
Tankie nut 2025 Corbyn.


On a similar topic the green leadership contest going on.
One of the guys is making some decent points, has borrowed my drum of "shut up about the fucking boats and look at the actual problems" but.... Man he has some awkward skeletons in his closet.
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Sheilbh

I mean Corbyn has always been a tankie nut. He's been in Parliament since 1983 (as a hard-core Bennite) and I don't think in all that time there's any issue where he's changed his mind - he is absolutely who he is and has always been :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

On the other hand I see the government is proposing to reopen cooperation with Hong Kong on extradition :bleeding:

Slightly wild that we have a government led by a human rights lawyer and it ends up cutting foreign aid, wanting to start extraditions to Hong Kong (and Zimbabwe) plus the Chagos Islands decision which requires the UK government, perversely, to make the exact same argument that the Wilson government made in removing the Chagosians (ie "the islands [...] have, and had, no settled population, and have never been self-governing. No question of self-determination for such a population arises now.").

No doubt all justifiable on some technical level but even the thing you'd expect Starmer to have strong views on... :huh:
Let's bomb Russia!

The Minsky Moment

On the bright side, I think it says good things about Britain that a socialist Muslim Pakistani woman can write a petition and the reason the people think it is sus is because of the other guy that co-wrote it.
We have, accordingly, always had plenty of excellent lawyers, though we often had to do without even tolerable administrators, and seen destined to endure the inconvenience of hereafter doing without any constructive statesmen at all.
--Woodrow Wilson

Sheilbh

:lol:

Six MPs - Sultana and Corbyn plus the Gaza Independents. And Sultana's said they got over 140,000 sign ups in the first ten hours. In terms of registered supporters they've overtaken the Tories.

If any of the unions move I think this might well end up being more significant for the left than the Limehouse Declaration (not least because Shirley Williams was trying but failed to convince any of the right-leaning unions to move).

But also I don't really know what the Labour Party is doing or who it's for at this point. For all the talk of them being Blue Labour it feels more like Blue Labour as they're perceived by their enemies than their actual ideas. And it's being led by someone who obviously doesn't believe any of what they're doing (whether that's disowning speeches or policies as him not paying enough attention) or whatever else). And I'm just not sure they've got the nous or skills to prevent flight risk MPs moving or to nimbly counter any of this.

Also, total aside but I think this is the first serious split of Labour to the left. MacDonald was a former leader and PM who split to the right, as did Roy Jenkins who was a former Deputy Leader. I don't think anyone who has been at that sort of level has broken to the left.

Edit: In all candour - despite all my issues and the many things I disagree with Sultana and Corbyn on....I am kind of tempted to sign up :ph34r:
Let's bomb Russia!