What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Syt]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/14/democratic-lawmakers-minnesota-shot

The US seems to be on fast forward to something very nasty.

I'm assuming that this will go largely uncommented on my sisters' facebook pages.

[grumbler]

So far, Trump has not shown much respect for state powers.

True, but the power I mentioned was federal, not state. Trump isn't going to try to usurp the power of states to enforce state laws against murder. Stephan Miller will probably try to argue for that but that will be to much for even the US Barbie General.

[Sophie Scholl]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/14/democratic-lawmakers-minnesota-shot

The US seems to be on fast forward to something very nasty.

The suspect was fully kitted out in full police panoply including a vehicle fully done up like a cop car but wasn't a cop?  Either an incredibly dedicated Cop LARPer or... perhaps something more likely.

[Tamas]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/14/democratic-lawmakers-minnesota-shot

The US seems to be on fast forward to something very nasty.

The suspect was fully kitted out in full police panoply including a vehicle fully done up like a cop car but wasn't a cop?  Either an incredibly dedicated Cop LARPer or... perhaps something more likely.

Yeah, colour me sceptical.

I read they are cancelling the No Kings protests in Minnesota because of these killings? That would be unwise. "Want to silence us? Most efficient is to use lethal force".

[Sophie Scholl]

Good luck with that.

You cannot see attachments on this board.

[Syt]

Texas, Virginia, Nebraska, and Missouri apparently have mobilized National Guard in preparation of the "No Kings" protests.

Texas alone has called up 5,000 troops.

https://apnews.com/article/immigration-protests-texas-national-guard-4f8ffc07788515c0d0e7ae40c7980565

[Tamas]

Texas, Virginia, Nebraska, and Missouri apparently have mobilized National Guard in preparation of the "No Kings" protests.

Texas alone has called up 5,000 troops.

https://apnews.com/article/immigration-protests-texas-national-guard-4f8ffc07788515c0d0e7ae40c7980565

Seriously what the hell.

[Tamas]

I don't like the upside down US flags on the protests either. It's the Trumpists who should be showing those, they are the ones fucking the country up.

[garbon]

I don't like the upside down US flags on the protests either. It's the Trumpists who should be showing those, they are the ones fucking the country up.

Yes, you've made it abundantly clear you have hangups about flags.

[grumbler]

I don't like the upside down US flags on the protests either. It's the Trumpists who should be showing those, they are the ones fucking the country up.

Flying the flag upside-down is a signal that you are in distress.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I don't like the upside down US flags on the protests either. It's the Trumpists who should be showing those, they are the ones fucking the country up.

it's appropriate for these protests to fly the flag upside down. Trumpists shouldn't fly the american flag at all given what they're doing. For them we've got something else: a red background, a white circle and a black symbol of choice but generally a bit crosslike with additional corners.

[Tamas]

I don't like the upside down US flags on the protests either. It's the Trumpists who should be showing those, they are the ones fucking the country up.

Flying the flag upside-down is a signal that you are in distress.

Ok, fair.

[Admiral Yi]

How many data points of lawlessness do you have?  I only know the one.  There was an injunction to stop the use of section blah blah of the Enemy Aliens Act, but my understanding is that order only applied going forward.  No one was called back by the court.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Judge Boasberg issued a TRO and ordered planes turned around. The planes in the air kept flying and some on the ground were even cleared for takeoff. When the Supreme Court confirmed that the Executive had to facilitate A-B's return (separate case), Trump and his people refused and made the preposterous claim that they had no ability to do so, a claim soon proven a bad faith lie when they changed their mind weeks later, and got him on a plane back with a snap of their fingers.  They flat out lied to the court.

But focusing just on criminal contempt of court orders vastly underrates the degree of lawlessness. The improper invocation of the AEA is lawless in itself, regardless of when and how a particular court rules. The Executive Branch isn't a three year old child; it doesn't get a pass on breaking the rules just because Mommy and Daddy didn't say "stop". The Trump people have been fairly open about the strategy of "flooding the zone" with unlawful EOs, to overwhelm the courts and "break things" before the slow moving judiciary can act effectively.

The orders against the universities are lawless.  The orders against the law firms are lawless. The threats to remove funds from states that don't agree with administration policy priorities (e.g. Maine) are lawless.  Attempts to close agencies and remove funding specifically authorized by Congress are lawless.  Threatening Elon Musk's companies with sanctions if he donates money to another party is lawless. There are literally dozens of such examples, each one individually would have been a massive scandal in any normal administration.  Lawlessness is not the exception, is has become the normal operating procedure of this Presidential administration.

I had forgotten about the TRO on the flight.

As to the rest, I think you're talking about a different sense of lawlessness than Shelf and I were.  His point (please correct as needed Shelf) was that Trump, in disregarding the law/acting lawlessly/breaking the law, had put himself in the same category of wrongdoer as James II, and that therefore, like James II, had made himself and his administration illegitimate, and therefore, acts of civil disobedience like Judge Dugan's were to be celebrated.  In my mind Shelf suggested, but did not explicitly state, that acts of civil disobedience directly targeting deportations should be a particular focus.

Given that context, do you think your broader definition of lawlessness applies?

[Sheilbh]

As to the rest, I think you're talking about a different sense of lawlessness than Shelf and I were.  His point (please correct as needed Shelf) was that Trump, in disregarding the law/acting lawlessly/breaking the law, had put himself in the same category of wrongdoer as James II, and that therefore, like James II, had made himself and his administration illegitimate, and therefore, acts of civil disobedience like Judge Dugan's were to be celebrated.  In my mind Shelf suggested, but did not explicitly state, that acts of civil disobedience directly targeting deportations should be a particular focus.

Shamefully I'm fairly Whig on James II so would go well beyond civil disobedience there

Again it's not about deportations for me. I think the immigration apparatus - particularly ICE - are behaving lawlessly and that's either on the orders of or with the protection of the top. Given that I'd support civil disobedience. So withdraw all voluntary cooperation, obstruct, non-violent passive resistance (personally I'd go full Captain Boycott/Land League and shun them too) etc.

If they want to act as the coercive wing of this political project (which is what I think the lawlessness) is doing then make them use that coercive power for every single inch.

[Oexmelin]

If they want to act as the coercive wing of this political project (which is what I think the lawlessness) is doing then make them use that coercive power for every single inch.

I am saddened, even if not especially shocked, that the centrist media has already started promoting a message of safety above all else, contributing to a demobilizing mindset.