What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[garbon]

TACO?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-reversal-may-exempt-farms-hotels-immigration-raids-rcna212958

Trump, in reversal, may exempt farms and hotels from immigration raids

After complaints from farm and hotel owners, Trump said he may halt ICE raids in those industries. If he does, experts say, he will struggle to meet his goal of 3,000 detentions a day.

President Trump said in a social media post on Thursday that he is willing to exempt the agriculture and hotel industries from his nationwide immigration crackdown. The surprise move came after executives in both industries complained to Trump about losing reliable, longtime immigrant workers in immigration raids and struggling to replace them.

"Our great Farmers and people in the Hotel and Leisure business have been stating that our very aggressive policy on immigration is taking very good, long time workers away from them, with those jobs being almost impossible to replace," Trump wrote.

"In many cases the Criminals allowed into our Country by the VERY Stupid Biden Open Borders Policy are applying for those jobs," Trump added. "This is not good. We must protect our Farmers, but get the CRIMINALS OUT OF THE USA. Changes are coming!"

The New York Times reported the following day that a senior Immigration and Customs Enforcement official had ordered a pause in immigration raids of agricultural businesses, meat packing plants, restaurants and hotels.

The senior ICE official also advised agents to stop arresting undocumented people who are not known to have committed a crime. Agents were told to continue to investigate and detain undocumented people with criminal backgrounds, according to the New York Times.

In response to a question from NBC News regarding Trump's pause, Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Tricia McLaughlin did not dispute it. "We will follow the president's direction and continue to work to get the worst of the worst criminal illegal aliens off of America's streets," McLaughlin said in a statement.

An immigration crossroads
The potentially significant change in the administration's approach to immigration comes as Trump faces a political crossroads. Immigration raids in Los Angeles sparked days of violent protests there and helped fuel sweeping anti-Trump protests nationwide on Saturday.

At the same time, Trump repeatedly promised his supporters during the 2024 campaign that he would deport a million people a year, the largest mass deportations in U.S. history.

To meet that goal, White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller demanded last month that ICE arrest at least 3,000 undocumented people a day.

Three former DHS officials told NBC News that ICE officials will have to significantly increase raids of large workplaces nationwide to meet those goals. Those sites include farms, meat-packing plants, hotels and restaurants — the industries that Trump appears to have exempted.

One former ICE official said that only raids on "construction, dairy [and] meat processing facilities, carpet mills" would result in the large number of detentions Miller has demanded. "It's these low-wage jobs, that is where you get the numbers," the former official said.

During the 2024 campaign and since taking office, Trump has dismissed warnings from experts that such large-scale deportations would lead to worker shortages in the industries he is apparently exempting now.

But groups that support Trump's crackdown expect him to keep his promise.

"They should be going after them," said Ira Mehlman, spokesperson for Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group that supports a crackdown on undocumented workers. "I don't think there is going to be a huge swath of the country that will be upset if they bust these companies, if they are employing illegal immigrants and passing on the cost to everyone else."

Targeting slaughterhouses
For years, slaughterhouses have been one of the industry's best known for relying on newly arrived immigrant labor, in part, due to the difficult and dangerous nature of the work. And many slaughterhouses are located in red states scattered throughout the Midwest and Southeast. Texas alone has almost 500 meat and food processing plants, according to USDA data.

Earlier this week, ICE agents raided a locally owned slaughterhouse in Omaha, Nebraska and arrested at least 80 undocumented workers, according to local officials.Chad Hartmann, a spokesperson for Glenn Valley Foods, said in a statement that federal agents searched the company's facility "for persons believed to be using fraudulent documents to gain employment." He said that the company strives to operate within the law, that it is cooperating with agents and that it "is not being charged with any crime."

...

[Sheilbh]

Yeah...we don't do parade well, and is a good reason we don't usually do them (and shouldn't).

Also, past basic training, we don't practice drill much...just the very basics.  Which is fine, because we're not in the 18th century anymore.

I also slightly wonder if the "thank you for your service culture" plays a role here? That's day-to-day practical civil-military relations in action.

I think parades can serve a symbolic civil-military stuff. This really hit home in a way I hadn't fully understood with the Queen's death and coronation and the head of state's symbolic role. But, practically speaking, British personnel have been banned from wearing the uniform if they're not on the job or on base since at least the Troubles because it has made them a target first for Irish Republicans and after the murder of Lee Rigby for violent Islamists too. So I think that without marches/parades of some sort - and it was Trooping the Colour this weekend - the military would basically be invisible here which I think is problematic.

[crazy canuck]

TACO?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-reversal-may-exempt-farms-hotels-immigration-raids-rcna212958

Trump, in reversal, may exempt farms and hotels from immigration raids

After complaints from farm and hotel owners, Trump said he may halt ICE raids in those industries. If he does, experts say, he will struggle to meet his goal of 3,000 detentions a day.

President Trump said in a social media post on Thursday that he is willing to exempt the agriculture and hotel industries from his nationwide immigration crackdown. The surprise move came after executives in both industries complained to Trump about losing reliable, longtime immigrant workers in immigration raids and struggling to replace them.

"Our great Farmers and people in the Hotel and Leisure business have been stating that our very aggressive policy on immigration is taking very good, long time workers away from them, with those jobs being almost impossible to replace," Trump wrote.

"In many cases the Criminals allowed into our Country by the VERY Stupid Biden Open Borders Policy are applying for those jobs," Trump added. "This is not good. We must protect our Farmers, but get the CRIMINALS OUT OF THE USA. Changes are coming!"

The New York Times reported the following day that a senior Immigration and Customs Enforcement official had ordered a pause in immigration raids of agricultural businesses, meat packing plants, restaurants and hotels.

The senior ICE official also advised agents to stop arresting undocumented people who are not known to have committed a crime. Agents were told to continue to investigate and detain undocumented people with criminal backgrounds, according to the New York Times.

In response to a question from NBC News regarding Trump's pause, Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Tricia McLaughlin did not dispute it. "We will follow the president's direction and continue to work to get the worst of the worst criminal illegal aliens off of America's streets," McLaughlin said in a statement.

An immigration crossroads
The potentially significant change in the administration's approach to immigration comes as Trump faces a political crossroads. Immigration raids in Los Angeles sparked days of violent protests there and helped fuel sweeping anti-Trump protests nationwide on Saturday.

At the same time, Trump repeatedly promised his supporters during the 2024 campaign that he would deport a million people a year, the largest mass deportations in U.S. history.

To meet that goal, White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller demanded last month that ICE arrest at least 3,000 undocumented people a day.

Three former DHS officials told NBC News that ICE officials will have to significantly increase raids of large workplaces nationwide to meet those goals. Those sites include farms, meat-packing plants, hotels and restaurants — the industries that Trump appears to have exempted.

One former ICE official said that only raids on "construction, dairy [and] meat processing facilities, carpet mills" would result in the large number of detentions Miller has demanded. "It's these low-wage jobs, that is where you get the numbers," the former official said.

During the 2024 campaign and since taking office, Trump has dismissed warnings from experts that such large-scale deportations would lead to worker shortages in the industries he is apparently exempting now.

But groups that support Trump's crackdown expect him to keep his promise.

"They should be going after them," said Ira Mehlman, spokesperson for Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group that supports a crackdown on undocumented workers. "I don't think there is going to be a huge swath of the country that will be upset if they bust these companies, if they are employing illegal immigrants and passing on the cost to everyone else."

Targeting slaughterhouses
For years, slaughterhouses have been one of the industry's best known for relying on newly arrived immigrant labor, in part, due to the difficult and dangerous nature of the work. And many slaughterhouses are located in red states scattered throughout the Midwest and Southeast. Texas alone has almost 500 meat and food processing plants, according to USDA data.

Earlier this week, ICE agents raided a locally owned slaughterhouse in Omaha, Nebraska and arrested at least 80 undocumented workers, according to local officials.Chad Hartmann, a spokesperson for Glenn Valley Foods, said in a statement that federal agents searched the company's facility "for persons believed to be using fraudulent documents to gain employment." He said that the company strives to operate within the law, that it is cooperating with agents and that it "is not being charged with any crime."

...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DK2m3Wzz4C-/?igsh=YmNnenpuM2djYmJz

[Oexmelin]

possibly the only military parade that also commemorates Gandhi

Their words are backed by nuclear weapons.

[Josquius]

TACO?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-reversal-may-exempt-farms-hotels-immigration-raids-rcna212958

Trump, in reversal, may exempt farms and hotels from immigration raids

After complaints from farm and hotel owners, Trump said he may halt ICE raids in those industries. If he does, experts say, he will struggle to meet his goal of 3,000 detentions a day.

President Trump said in a social media post on Thursday that he is willing to exempt the agriculture and hotel industries from his nationwide immigration crackdown. The surprise move came after executives in both industries complained to Trump about losing reliable, longtime immigrant workers in immigration raids and struggling to replace them.

"Our great Farmers and people in the Hotel and Leisure business have been stating that our very aggressive policy on immigration is taking very good, long time workers away from them, with those jobs being almost impossible to replace," Trump wrote.

"In many cases the Criminals allowed into our Country by the VERY Stupid Biden Open Borders Policy are applying for those jobs," Trump added. "This is not good. We must protect our Farmers, but get the CRIMINALS OUT OF THE USA. Changes are coming!"

The New York Times reported the following day that a senior Immigration and Customs Enforcement official had ordered a pause in immigration raids of agricultural businesses, meat packing plants, restaurants and hotels.

The senior ICE official also advised agents to stop arresting undocumented people who are not known to have committed a crime. Agents were told to continue to investigate and detain undocumented people with criminal backgrounds, according to the New York Times.

In response to a question from NBC News regarding Trump's pause, Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Tricia McLaughlin did not dispute it. "We will follow the president's direction and continue to work to get the worst of the worst criminal illegal aliens off of America's streets," McLaughlin said in a statement.

An immigration crossroads
The potentially significant change in the administration's approach to immigration comes as Trump faces a political crossroads. Immigration raids in Los Angeles sparked days of violent protests there and helped fuel sweeping anti-Trump protests nationwide on Saturday.

At the same time, Trump repeatedly promised his supporters during the 2024 campaign that he would deport a million people a year, the largest mass deportations in U.S. history.

To meet that goal, White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller demanded last month that ICE arrest at least 3,000 undocumented people a day.

Three former DHS officials told NBC News that ICE officials will have to significantly increase raids of large workplaces nationwide to meet those goals. Those sites include farms, meat-packing plants, hotels and restaurants — the industries that Trump appears to have exempted.

One former ICE official said that only raids on "construction, dairy [and] meat processing facilities, carpet mills" would result in the large number of detentions Miller has demanded. "It's these low-wage jobs, that is where you get the numbers," the former official said.

During the 2024 campaign and since taking office, Trump has dismissed warnings from experts that such large-scale deportations would lead to worker shortages in the industries he is apparently exempting now.

But groups that support Trump's crackdown expect him to keep his promise.

"They should be going after them," said Ira Mehlman, spokesperson for Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group that supports a crackdown on undocumented workers. "I don't think there is going to be a huge swath of the country that will be upset if they bust these companies, if they are employing illegal immigrants and passing on the cost to everyone else."

Targeting slaughterhouses
For years, slaughterhouses have been one of the industry's best known for relying on newly arrived immigrant labor, in part, due to the difficult and dangerous nature of the work. And many slaughterhouses are located in red states scattered throughout the Midwest and Southeast. Texas alone has almost 500 meat and food processing plants, according to USDA data.

Earlier this week, ICE agents raided a locally owned slaughterhouse in Omaha, Nebraska and arrested at least 80 undocumented workers, according to local officials.Chad Hartmann, a spokesperson for Glenn Valley Foods, said in a statement that federal agents searched the company's facility "for persons believed to be using fraudulent documents to gain employment." He said that the company strives to operate within the law, that it is cooperating with agents and that it "is not being charged with any crime."

...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DK2m3Wzz4C-/?igsh=YmNnenpuM2djYmJz

So its just the construction industry he especially wants to screw?
Its recognised that the Abundance guys really are onto something?

[The Minsky Moment]

I had forgotten about the TRO on the flight.

As to the rest, I think you're talking about a different sense of lawlessness than Shelf and I were.  His point (please correct as needed Shelf) was that Trump, in disregarding the law/acting lawlessly/breaking the law, had put himself in the same category of wrongdoer as James II, and that therefore, like James II, had made himself and his administration illegitimate, and therefore, acts of civil disobedience like Judge Dugan's were to be celebrated.  In my mind Shelf suggested, but did not explicitly state, that acts of civil disobedience directly targeting deportations should be a particular focus.

Given that context, do you think your broader definition of lawlessness applies?

I think it applies but I don't think the conclusion follows.

It's very troubling for the judiciary in particular to engage in civil disobedience because they are the last branch upholding the rule of law. It's an understatement to say that would send a mixed message.  (as you know I don't think that is what Judge Dugan was doing, but I'll let the facts of her case establish that).

James II is a poor analogy because of the different systems and contexts. There was a domestic rebellion against James that failed badly and lots of people were killed; not a good model.  James was not ousted through a Gandhian civil disobedience campaign.  He was overthrown by a foreign invasion, albeit one that had considerable domestic sympathy.  Again not a model to emulate, as tempting as it may seem to throw in our lot with Prime Minister Carney and his crack Mounties.

[Tonitrus]

Yeah...we don't do parade well, and is a good reason we don't usually do them (and shouldn't).

Also, past basic training, we don't practice drill much...just the very basics.  Which is fine, because we're not in the 18th century anymore.

I also slightly wonder if the "thank you for your service culture" plays a role here? That's day-to-day practical civil-military relations in action.

I think parades can serve a symbolic civil-military stuff. This really hit home in a way I hadn't fully understood with the Queen's death and coronation and the head of state's symbolic role. But, practically speaking, British personnel have been banned from wearing the uniform if they're not on the job or on base since at least the Troubles because it has made them a target first for Irish Republicans and after the murder of Lee Rigby for violent Islamists too. So I think that without marches/parades of some sort - and it was Trooping the Colour this weekend - the military would basically be invisible here which I think is problematic.

It was interesting to see the differences when I was stationed over there...we were always advised to be far less conspicuous about uniform wear outside the RAF base (forbidden essentially).  In the US, uniform wear off-post is pretty common in the area around a base.  Public reaction understandably differs by region.  In Alaska, it'd likely result in your meal being paid for by an anonymous admirer.  In Monterey, CA, rarely done and looks/feels out of place.

My British colleagues were all proud of the their service, but seemed much more laid back about it.  There was no "outside the wire" shame about it all...but didn't flaunt it like we tend to do.  The exception being ceremonies honoring the military.  One regular event my unit was involved...and one of the very few cases we'd wear our uniform out in public... in was an annual memorial to the Mi Amigo (a US bomber that crashed landed in Sheffield.  (you can briefly spot me from a distance in this video:

So...it seemed like we have more day-to-day contact in the US (around military installations), while in the UK contact was usually mostly in the context of ceremony.

What was also interesting...even if religion might be taken generally less seriously the UK, there absolutely no inkling of not mixing state and religion that is pretty strong in our military (yes, we have chaplains and such...but you can still see the separation pretty clearly).

[Tamas]

TACO?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-reversal-may-exempt-farms-hotels-immigration-raids-rcna212958

Trump, in reversal, may exempt farms and hotels from immigration raids

After complaints from farm and hotel owners, Trump said he may halt ICE raids in those industries. If he does, experts say, he will struggle to meet his goal of 3,000 detentions a day.

President Trump said in a social media post on Thursday that he is willing to exempt the agriculture and hotel industries from his nationwide immigration crackdown. The surprise move came after executives in both industries complained to Trump about losing reliable, longtime immigrant workers in immigration raids and struggling to replace them.

"Our great Farmers and people in the Hotel and Leisure business have been stating that our very aggressive policy on immigration is taking very good, long time workers away from them, with those jobs being almost impossible to replace," Trump wrote.

"In many cases the Criminals allowed into our Country by the VERY Stupid Biden Open Borders Policy are applying for those jobs," Trump added. "This is not good. We must protect our Farmers, but get the CRIMINALS OUT OF THE USA. Changes are coming!"

The New York Times reported the following day that a senior Immigration and Customs Enforcement official had ordered a pause in immigration raids of agricultural businesses, meat packing plants, restaurants and hotels.

The senior ICE official also advised agents to stop arresting undocumented people who are not known to have committed a crime. Agents were told to continue to investigate and detain undocumented people with criminal backgrounds, according to the New York Times.

In response to a question from NBC News regarding Trump's pause, Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Tricia McLaughlin did not dispute it. "We will follow the president's direction and continue to work to get the worst of the worst criminal illegal aliens off of America's streets," McLaughlin said in a statement.

An immigration crossroads
The potentially significant change in the administration's approach to immigration comes as Trump faces a political crossroads. Immigration raids in Los Angeles sparked days of violent protests there and helped fuel sweeping anti-Trump protests nationwide on Saturday.

At the same time, Trump repeatedly promised his supporters during the 2024 campaign that he would deport a million people a year, the largest mass deportations in U.S. history.

To meet that goal, White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller demanded last month that ICE arrest at least 3,000 undocumented people a day.

Three former DHS officials told NBC News that ICE officials will have to significantly increase raids of large workplaces nationwide to meet those goals. Those sites include farms, meat-packing plants, hotels and restaurants — the industries that Trump appears to have exempted.

One former ICE official said that only raids on "construction, dairy [and] meat processing facilities, carpet mills" would result in the large number of detentions Miller has demanded. "It's these low-wage jobs, that is where you get the numbers," the former official said.

During the 2024 campaign and since taking office, Trump has dismissed warnings from experts that such large-scale deportations would lead to worker shortages in the industries he is apparently exempting now.

But groups that support Trump's crackdown expect him to keep his promise.

"They should be going after them," said Ira Mehlman, spokesperson for Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group that supports a crackdown on undocumented workers. "I don't think there is going to be a huge swath of the country that will be upset if they bust these companies, if they are employing illegal immigrants and passing on the cost to everyone else."

Targeting slaughterhouses
For years, slaughterhouses have been one of the industry's best known for relying on newly arrived immigrant labor, in part, due to the difficult and dangerous nature of the work. And many slaughterhouses are located in red states scattered throughout the Midwest and Southeast. Texas alone has almost 500 meat and food processing plants, according to USDA data.

Earlier this week, ICE agents raided a locally owned slaughterhouse in Omaha, Nebraska and arrested at least 80 undocumented workers, according to local officials.Chad Hartmann, a spokesperson for Glenn Valley Foods, said in a statement that federal agents searched the company's facility "for persons believed to be using fraudulent documents to gain employment." He said that the company strives to operate within the law, that it is cooperating with agents and that it "is not being charged with any crime."

...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DK2m3Wzz4C-/?igsh=YmNnenpuM2djYmJz

So its just the construction industry he especially wants to screw?
Its recognised that the Abundance guys really are onto something?

I don't know.

[Zoupa]

How strange that these large scale, inflammatory raids only seem to happen in blue states? Such a mystery.

Waiting for the "law and order", "ackshually, that's not a good way to protest" blah blah blah crowd.

Trump's border tsar: We'll flood liberal cities with ICE raids

[Valmy]

That is just going to trigger more confrontations as they fuck over innocent people just trying to follow the laws as in LA. But that is what Trump wants to do.

[Admiral Yi]

I thought the parade looked like a Disney show.

[Sophie Scholl]

Disney parades have a lot higher production value and (at least outwardly) much happier and organized participants. Plus, a lot more folks watching and excited to see them.

[crazy canuck]

Disney parades have a lot higher production value and (at least outwardly) much happier and organized participants. Plus, a lot more folks watching and excited to see them.

You beat me to it.

[The Minsky Moment]

The Disney shows I've seen have had a lot more cartoon animals and a lot less heavy ordnance.  The one exception is the Hollywood Park with the Star Wars stormtroopers but I'm not sure that was the intended vibe for this.

[Sheilbh]

James II is a poor analogy because of the different systems and contexts. There was a domestic rebellion against James that failed badly and lots of people were killed; not a good model.  James was not ousted through a Gandhian civil disobedience campaign.  He was overthrown by a foreign invasion, albeit one that had considerable domestic sympathy.  Again not a model to emulate, as tempting as it may seem to throw in our lot with Prime Minister Carney and his crack Mounties.

Yeah I wouldn't be comparing in that way.

It's more of interest especially in light of "no kings" protests that there's Resoration era (Charles II) legislation on this sort of issue. In that case from a fear that he'd forcibly remove his enemies from England (with habeas corpus) to, say, Tangier from Catherine of Braganza's dowry (where the English courts wouldn't have jurisdiction to enforce habeas corpus). The legislation, which is still on the books, prohibited sending anyone living in England as a prisoner anywhere else. Such imprisonment would be illegal and there'd be a right of action against all people involved, as well as damages. Anyone responsible or in any other way involved in the false imprisonment and explicitly removing the monarch's right of pardon - this was a crime "incapable of any pardon".

Not a comparison in serious way (I knew about this because it was used by barristers challenging UK complicity in extraordinary rendition), just an echo given cases like Abrego Garcia and especially the administration's argument that once they put someone in a prison in El Salvador it's out of their hands and up to the El Salvadoreans.