What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[grumbler]

Well, we at least fired at the nazis as they were invading. Y'all just put them in power instead.

Invading France, not Czechoslovakia.  I thought you were Canadian.

If you want to go there, the US sure took its sweet time deciding to enter the conflict.

Yes, because Anglo-French betrayal of the Armistice taught the US that it was stupid to try to pull Europe's fat out of the fire until vital US interests were engaged.  The French and British were experts at making outsiders and colonials pay for the costs of their folly.

[Jacob]

Is this good natured banter and everyone's having a laugh here?

[Valmy]

Yes, because Anglo-French betrayal of the Armistice taught the US that it was stupid to try to pull Europe's fat out of the fire until vital US interests were engaged.  The French and British were experts at making outsiders and colonials pay for the costs of their folly.

How did they betray the armistice?

[Valmy]

Nope, the Americans held off the Nazis for four years, the French for six weeks.

If we are going to count internal Nazis then the French held off fascism for decades. They had a powerful far right internally attacking their institutions just like the Germans, Italians, and Spanish did.

[Valmy]

After americans surrendering to russkis without a shot being fired, we can give the surrender monkey moniker to them now. Cheeseburger eating surrender monkeys.

Agreed, though you can take heart in the fact that the French will remain the original and best Surrender Monkeys.  No one can take that away from them.

No other country in history has ever surrendered after their army was defeated on the battlefield. This is unique to France. 

What a bunch of garbage.

[grumbler]

Is this good natured banter and everyone's having a laugh here?

Yes, on my part.

[grumbler]

Yes, because Anglo-French betrayal of the Armistice taught the US that it was stupid to try to pull Europe's fat out of the fire until vital US interests were engaged.  The French and British were experts at making outsiders and colonials pay for the costs of their folly.

How did they betray the armistice?

The Armistice was accepted on all sides as a preliminary to peace talks in accordance with the 14 Points. One of the 14 Points was that negotiations would occur with "no victor, no vanquished."  Something along the lines of the Treaty of Vienna that ended the Napoleonic Wars and ushered in an extended peace.  Once the Germans had disarmed themselves, the British and French announced that the Germans would not even be invited to the "negotiations" and that the negotiations would consist entirely of the Allies dividing the spoils between them.  That's why Wilson abandoned the talks and the US never ratified the treaty (negotiating their own peace with Germany).  That approach also poisoned the League of Nations.

[HVC]

Is this good natured banter and everyone's having a laugh here?

I think so. The French aligned want to change the narrative of the past and the American aligned want to change the narrative of the present

[grumbler]

After americans surrendering to russkis without a shot being fired, we can give the surrender monkey moniker to them now. Cheeseburger eating surrender monkeys.

Agreed, though you can take heart in the fact that the French will remain the original and best Surrender Monkeys.  No one can take that away from them.

No other country in history has ever surrendered after their army was defeated on the battlefield. This is unique to France. 

What a bunch of garbage.

France also surrendered to the French Nazis, every bit as much as the US surrendered to their domestic Nazis.  Except the US Nazis aren't turning over Jews to be murdered.

[Valmy]

The Armistice was accepted on all sides as a preliminary to peace talks in accordance with the 14 Points. One of the 14 Points was that negotiations would occur with "no victor, no vanquished."

LOL the terms of the armistice included the occupation of Germany to be paid for at German expense as well as the surrendering of territory and military equipment. Surrendering of the German Navy into Allied Hands. Maintenance of the blockade. Financial settlement with Belgium and other occupied territories.

How the fuck is that an armistice that says "no victor, no vanquished"?

Germany was defeated and surrendered.

And even if we had a peace that very specifically went along the 14 points it STILL would have been a peace not acceptable to Germany since it included all of Germany's territorial losses to France and Poland. And the whole strategy of the German right was to force the Social Democrats to sign the peace, blame the left for losing the war, and use that to regain power in Germany. So even if we had done everything exactly as Wilson wrote down I am highly skeptical a lasting peace would have been the result.

And the US still would have rejected the treaty and left Europe because the Republicans viewed the League of Nations as unacceptable and borderline treasonous.

[Zoupa]

After americans surrendering to russkis without a shot being fired, we can give the surrender monkey moniker to them now. Cheeseburger eating surrender monkeys.

Agreed, though you can take heart in the fact that the French will remain the original and best Surrender Monkeys.  No one can take that away from them.

No other country in history has ever surrendered after their army was defeated on the battlefield. This is unique to France. 

What a bunch of garbage.

France also surrendered to the French Nazis, every bit as much as the US surrendered to their domestic Nazis.  Except the US Nazis aren't turning over Jews to be murdered.

True, they're just turning over Ukrainians to be murdered.

[Zoupa]

Is this good natured banter and everyone's having a laugh here?

Not really.

[Valmy]

France also surrendered to the French Nazis, every bit as much as the US surrendered to their domestic Nazis.  Except the US Nazis aren't turning over Jews to be murdered.

Ok well that is kind of true. But the French Nazis tricked the opposition leaders to got to North Africa and then intimidated the remaining weaklings.

But there was wishful thinking that maybe this whole surrendering to Germany thing wouldn't be so bad if the French played ball. Sort of like the Democrats thinking they can find common ground with Trump last month.

[viper37]

At this point it's half power trip, half dementia, right?

They should watch all their pockets when they leave.

[crazy canuck]

After americans surrendering to russkis without a shot being fired, we can give the surrender monkey moniker to them now. Cheeseburger eating surrender monkeys.

Agreed, though you can take heart in the fact that the French will remain the original and best Surrender Monkeys.  No one can take that away from them.

Nope, the French bled before surrendering.

Nope, the Americans held off the Nazis for four years, the French for six weeks.

Fuck right off.