What does a BIDEN Presidency look like?

[garbon]

No, he did not earn the right to sacrifice America to Trump with a likely loss.

[Barrister]

No, he did not earn the right to sacrifice America to Trump with a likely loss.

I mean I'm glad he did in fact resign!

But there was no mechanism in law (short of the 25th amendment) that would've forced him not to run at this point against his will.  It was his decision to make and his alone.  Which is what made Trump's initial talk of it being a "coup" so ridiculous.

[Sheilbh]

I mean I'm glad he did in fact resign!

But there was no mechanism in law (short of the 25th amendment) that would've forced him not to run at this point against his will.  It was his decision to make and his alone.  Which is what made Trump's initial talk of it being a "coup" so ridiculous.

Law doesn't matter.

He was enabled in his decision to run again - including various rule changes and rescheduling of primaries to discourage/make it very difficult for a challenger. The party maybe didn't choose but rallied behind him. That wasn't a legal necessity but a political choice.

I think after he debate performance there was an awful lot of politicking between senior party figures, Biden's advisers and (reportedly) Biden's family. I think the people who loved him most and didn't want his legacy to be tarred by him standing down, perhaps did him the biggest disservice by not encouraging him not to run again and then delaying what became inevitable.

I'm not sure what Biden's long-term legacy/reputation will be and I think I come at it from the diametrically opposite place as you. I think a lot of the early record will be marked by dissecting the month after his debate performance and also his time in office and quite how "there" he was (like late Reagan) - in part because that's perhaps the area where journalism and history overlap most. I don't think it'll be seen as a noble sacrifice (it would have, before the debate) but catastrophe (maybe) averted. Having said that I think in terms of legislative achievement and what he got done in one term, that he is, possibly, the most effective president in my lifetime and has a very impressive record.

[Barrister]

I'm not sure what Biden's long-term legacy/reputation will be and I think I come at it from the diametrically opposite place as you. I think a lot of the early record will be marked by dissecting the month after his debate performance and also his time in office and quite how "there" he was (like late Reagan) - in part because that's perhaps the area where journalism and history overlap most. I don't think it'll be seen as a noble sacrifice (it would have, before the debate) but catastrophe (maybe) averted. Having said that I think in terms of legislative achievement and what he got done in one term, that he is, possibly, the most effective president in my lifetime and has a very impressive record.

Yeah, I really quite disagree.

I think his legislative achievements are incredibly modest - he passed some really huge spending bills like IRA (which did not in fact reduce inflation) but nothing else of consequence.  He came close to a border deal until it was nuked by Trump from the sidelines.  His withdrawal from Afghanistan was a disaster (although again - initially negotiated by Trump) and his support for Ukraine, while important, has always been a day late and a dollar short.

But I think he will be important in terms of his overall electoral record as I said - being Obama's VP, defeating Trump, and handing the reigns to Harris.

Of course I suspect I'll be rather disappointed in a President Harris, but at least it'll be a disappointment in the regular way, not the "Holy Fuck what is he going to do next" way of Trump.

[Josquius]

When does Harris start for being disappointed?

Starting from now when she is the messiah then sure. She's gonna suck.
But from how people regarded her at the start of the year... She could be amazing compared to expectations.

Oh.
And.
So much unhatched poultry to be numerated...

[Valmy]

Yeah, I really quite disagree.

I think his legislative achievements are incredibly modest - he passed some really huge spending bills like IRA (which did not in fact reduce inflation) but nothing else of consequence.

He did exactly as much as he was constitutionally able to do. And he did better than I thought he would do. He did a COVID relief bill, the IRA was awesome (if not really about reducing inflation...admittedly), and he did a needed infrastructure bill even if watered down. I was impressed. But we are definitely grading on a curve. We are in the post 2008 era where the Republicans will block everything they have the ability to block just to deny a Democratic President getting a 'win' even if they really like the legislation. I honestly thought Biden would be stifled everywhere but we had a minor miracle and sort of had the Senate and the House his first two years. Granted he had a traitor in his midst in Sinema who pretended to be left wing and just lied and a conservative Democrat in Manchin who had to be catered to.

Harris might not even have that.

But it is kind of ridiculous to blame the President on the total disfunction of the Legislature. That is on Congress. Biden didn't pass anything. He doesn't get a vote and this isn't the 20th century where a President can broker some sort of deal with the opposition. Those days are in the past, the increasingly distant past.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, I really quite disagree.

Obvs

I think his legislative achievements are incredibly modest - he passed some really huge spending bills like IRA (which did not in fact reduce inflation) but nothing else of consequence.  He came close to a border deal until it was nuked by Trump from the sidelines.  His withdrawal from Afghanistan was a disaster (although again - initially negotiated by Trump) and his support for Ukraine, while important, has always been a day late and a dollar short.

On foreign policy I also think whatever happens in Gaza will be a significant part of his legacy.

I think there will be a debate on Biden's legacy (and, perhaps to be provocative, the extent to which it is the legislative enactment of Trump's rhetoric and "policy" agenda ) - but my own view is that it's significant. I think Biden is justified in saying the IRA is the most important climate legislation in the world ever (so far). But I also think with the IRA, the infrastructure bill, CHIPS collectively will be a bit of hinge moment. I think collectively it's a really significant, important, coherent legislative agenda and, I think, far more significant than anything Biden, the Bushes, or Clinton achieved in a single term (legislatively). And I think the political context in which he delivered that makes it significant.

But I think he will be important in terms of his overall electoral record as I said - being Obama's VP, defeating Trump, and handing the reigns to Harris.

I don't think anyone's record as VP is important I agree on 2020 and I think 2024 will be contested.

[Sophie Scholl]

But it is kind of ridiculous to blame the President on the total disfunction of the Legislature. That is on Congress. Biden didn't pass anything. He doesn't get a vote and this isn't the 20th century where a President can broker some sort of deal with the opposition. Those days are in the past, the increasingly distant past.

This is the part I think will be interesting going forward for Democrats. With the older leadership stepping down, the mindset that compromise and reaching across the aisle are legitimate options with the current Republican Party will probably die out, too. Biden in particular promoted himself as being a big champion of such efforts, even if they are hopelessly doomed these days as you note. I'm wondering if the newer generation of leaders will just say "fuck 'em" and try out new methods of getting their agendas accomplished so we actually have legitimate results to experience instead of the collapsing cripplingly dysfunctional nation state we have now. Compromise has only existed from one side for almost 20 years now and we've had the Overton Window of American politics and the further collapse of things follow accordingly. I'm still not sure how things can be turned around, but I really hope they are. 

[Neil]

I don't think anyone's record as VP is important I agree on 2020 and I think 2024 will be contested.

I think a part of Biden's legacy will be that the Vice President is not a throwaway position.  I find it interesting that the office became incredibly consequential at one of the two times in the last fifty years that it was filled by someone who was a distinct political non-entity (the other time being Dan Quayle). 

[Norgy]

Well, it certainly isn't a "bucket of piss" as I believe John Nance Gardner called it.

And it is more than a PA position.
While it is wildly different in Norway, I'd call the "advisors" to the PM some of the most powerful people in the country.

[mongers]

Does this thread now deserve to die, replaced by a new Trump presidency one?

[Barrister]

I don't think anyone's record as VP is important I agree on 2020 and I think 2024 will be contested.

I think a part of Biden's legacy will be that the Vice President is not a throwaway position.  I find it interesting that the office became incredibly consequential at one of the two times in the last fifty years that it was filled by someone who was a distinct political non-entity (the other time being Dan Quayle). 

I just saw this now.

Dan Quayle may wind up being more consequential than you think.

Mike Pence in the lead up to January 6 was under intense pressure from Trump to refuse to count the electoral votes.  He consulted with Dan Quayle (they're both Indianans, Republicans, and Vice Presidents) - who was quite emphatic that Pence needed to count the votes as required.

[garbon]

Joe did it. Hunter pardoned.

[Tamas]

I mean, at this stage I would have done the same. The country just elected a convicted felon who this way has gotten out of more and more severe convictions. I just wish he did it a couple of years ago so we wouldn't had a reason to try and stick around for a second term.

[Maladict]

Given Trump's pettiness and vindictiveness I can see why he did it. It's still a bad look though.