Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[The Minsky Moment]

Both you and JR are giving way too much credit in assuming that a sophisticated system was developed when all of the evidence indicates that there was nobody there to do so.

I don't think it is sophisticated.  I don't think great sophistication is needed to program a system to refrain from flagging violent racist conduct.  Although admittedly I lack the relevant expertise.

[The Minsky Moment]

It does not require any degree of sophisticated systems to allow people to post what they will.  It's actually easier to do if you don't put proper systems in place at all

Ah I see your argument now.  But here's the problem with it. X's systems are doing things like taking down pro-Harris material and flagging National Public Radio as "unsafe".  So, they aren't allowing people to post what they will. Rather, it seems like they are overtuned to flag certain kinds of content and undertuned for others. And since both tunings happen to match Musk's own expressed views, it seems reasonable to infer intentionality and not mere neglect.

[Sophie Scholl]

I'm guessing they're still using the base level modding prompts that were established before he gutted everything and just switched up the "good" and "bad" word lists that trigger actions. It doesn't require a large and/or competent staff to make such changes, I presume, and he probably keeps the few people still able to handle the more complex tasks ready to sic on his enemies, real and imagined.

[Barrister]

That's one interpretation.
The other is that the automated systems are working as designed.  Ex. A being Musk's comment on the Kay conviction.

I think this is it. Sunder Katwala is worth looking at for astonishingly racist accounts either being unbanned or not being sanctioned for very racist comments all over Twitter. It's a feature not a bug.

I keep seeing pretty explicitly racist shit on Twitter all the damn time.  I mean short of using the n-word I'm not sure what the limits are on that platform for racism.

Now some of that might be the fault of the algorithm in that it can't tell if you're looking at a post because you like it, or because you're going "WTF I can't believe they allow this".  Maybe someone with different viewing habits would see different posts - but then again you'd still get all of Elon's bleatings, some of which are moderately racist.

[Josquius]

That's one interpretation.
The other is that the automated systems are working as designed.  Ex. A being Musk's comment on the Kay conviction.

I think this is it. Sunder Katwala is worth looking at for astonishingly racist accounts either being unbanned or not being sanctioned for very racist comments all over Twitter. It's a feature not a bug.

I keep seeing pretty explicitly racist shit on Twitter all the damn time.  I mean short of using the n-word I'm not sure what the limits are on that platform for racism.

Now some of that might be the fault of the algorithm in that it can't tell if you're looking at a post because you like it, or because you're going "WTF I can't believe they allow this".  Maybe someone with different viewing habits would see different posts - but then again you'd still get all of Elon's bleatings, some of which are moderately racist.

Wasn't there a quote from Zuckerberg or someone outright saying anger is good for engagement?

It's pretty well known that negative emotions a far more triggering than happy emotions. The social media companies just want your clicks and views so they embrace it.

[Barrister]

That's one interpretation.
The other is that the automated systems are working as designed.  Ex. A being Musk's comment on the Kay conviction.

I think this is it. Sunder Katwala is worth looking at for astonishingly racist accounts either being unbanned or not being sanctioned for very racist comments all over Twitter. It's a feature not a bug.

I keep seeing pretty explicitly racist shit on Twitter all the damn time.  I mean short of using the n-word I'm not sure what the limits are on that platform for racism.

Now some of that might be the fault of the algorithm in that it can't tell if you're looking at a post because you like it, or because you're going "WTF I can't believe they allow this".  Maybe someone with different viewing habits would see different posts - but then again you'd still get all of Elon's bleatings, some of which are moderately racist.

OK, so not racist, but 100% pro-Nazi and anti-semitic:

Why don't they subtitle Hitler's speeches on Youtube?

"Because they don't want you to know the truth man" (only a slight paraphrasing of numerous replies...)

https://twitter.com/IImpartialTruth/status/1830821321132929110

[Sheilbh]

I keep seeing pretty explicitly racist shit on Twitter all the damn time.  I mean short of using the n-word I'm not sure what the limits are on that platform for racism.

Now some of that might be the fault of the algorithm in that it can't tell if you're looking at a post because you like it, or because you're going "WTF I can't believe they allow this".  Maybe someone with different viewing habits would see different posts - but then again you'd still get all of Elon's bleatings, some of which are moderately racist.

Yeah so to be honest I don't see much myself - the only stuff I see is basically Sunder Katwala screenshotting what he is complaining about and Twitter's response. And also I have zero interest in the "for you" section - I don't know what that's for - so I only look at people who I follow because that's why I follow them.

[Barrister]

Yeah so to be honest I don't see much myself - the only stuff I see is basically Sunder Katwala screenshotting what he is complaining about and Twitter's response. And also I have zero interest in the "for you" section - I don't know what that's for - so I only look at people who I follow because that's why I follow them.

Maybe that's it - I tend to use the "for you" section.  If you go to "following" you can run out of tweets pretty quickly, while you can scroll "for you" recommendations endlessly.

[Admiral Yi]

The 41-year-old had posted on 29 July calling for hotels housing migrants to be set on fire and for "mass deportation now".

The order in which these things are done certainly makes a difference.

[The Minsky Moment]

The 41-year-old had posted on 29 July calling for hotels housing migrants to be set on fire and for "mass deportation now".

The order in which these things are done certainly makes a difference.

It makes *some* difference but arson even without murder is still a serious crime.

In context, although the ravings of violent racists are difficult to translate into a logically coherent expression, it seems unlikely that the individual in question was expressing their rage at the mere physical existence of the buildings, as opposed to expressing the desire that the buildings be destroyed as a necessary by-product of eliminating the human beings inside.

[The Minsky Moment]

[If you go to "following" you can run out of tweets pretty quickly

Yes.

Whereas I never seem to find the time to get through all my substack follows. much less track through to recommendations based on them.  That is far from being the sole difference between the two platforms but IMO it's a telling one.

I'm not impervious to the sugar high of twitter but you can never forget that twitter is to discourse what making fart noises with your hand in mouth is to comedy.

[Barrister]

[If you go to "following" you can run out of tweets pretty quickly

Yes.

Whereas I never seem to find the time to get through all my substack follows. much less track through to recommendations based on them.  That is far from being the sole difference between the two platforms but IMO it's a telling one.

I'm not impervious to the sugar high of twitter but you can never forget that twitter is to discourse what making fart noises with your hand in mouth is to comedy.

Does substack not require multiple subscriptions though?

I wouldn't put it quite so crudely, but yes Twitter is clearly flawed.  It also DOES drive some of the online narrative, so following it has its value.

[The Minsky Moment]

Does substack not require multiple subscriptions though?

Yes but there is a good amount of complementary content

Twitter is free in the sense that you get what you pay for.

[FunkMonk]

Twitter is useless now unless you really try hard to cultivate your follows, and that becomes more and more difficult as decent people continue to leave the platform. Frankly, there are better and easier ways to use with social media. I'm on a fairly active discord server that's cordial if often very heated. There is an actual community. Seems like when you interact with the same people on a daily basis and get to know them you are less inclined to be a complete asshole even if you don't agree with them. We also bully/ban racists and the like very quickly.

I deleted Twitter and deactivated my account after Elon started fucking with it and haven't missed it at all.

[Sheilbh]

I wouldn't put it quite so crudely, but yes Twitter is clearly flawed.  It also DOES drive some of the online narrative, so following it has its value.

Yeah I think this is the problem. I posted the article about Labour's angst on this issue but I think it is broader.

Having said that, since the riots and the role Twitter played there's been a move of a lot of British journalists etc to mainly posting on BlueSky (it's also night because of that it doesn't yet feel like part of the American internet ). I believe there's something similar going on in Brazil because of the court order there.

My view is that Twitter will keep going as long as it's the social media platform for politics and news - it's where politicians, think-tankers, journalists etc interact and there is a market who are interested in that. It's where they react and where "the narrative" can be seen emerging but also ideas fleshing out (for example YIMBYism over the last 10 years or so in the US and UK). That's a niche but it's also one that, say, Meta or Google have zero interest in.

So you need a Substack or BlueSky to pick up that audience - I don't think they've done it yet, but I think Musk might be pushing that crowd away. The UK and Brazil are interesting canaries in the coalmine for that. One for regulatory reasons and one for hygienic reasons. And I think that may be how Twitter ends - a mass movement off platform when we see what is being posted on Twitter in the name of "free speech" at the next Charlottesville/January 6th/BLM protests, in the same way as we've seen in the UK following the riots.