[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

This schedule is also the same as for most of Europe.

As I say this is where net zero requirements mesh with industrial policy strategy because we're all working to the same timetable, we all need the manufacturing capacity (along the supply chain) and to make sure there's enough infrastructure (charging points, grid capacity and that the electricity is generated renewably).

It's also an area where I think there's a little bit of counter-intuitive priorities because I remember reading somewhere that actually in terms of pure carbon impact, electrifying two (and three) wheel vehicles will have a bigger impact but receives vastly less attention - for the usual reason.

But I mean Europe is a very different landscape then Canada.  Even in driving in the far north of Scotland there was never any sense of concern about not being able to buy gas.  I haven't visited Scandinavia so maybe the far north there, but even still the population density seems much higher.

I am curious about the 2a and 3 wheel vehicles bit - my understanding is they are far dirtier than automobiles, but given the smaller number of them I can't see how that would have more effect then autos.

[Sheilbh]

My point on Europe is basically that it's not just Canada meeting that timeline - which means a lot of demand in a relatively short space of time. I think the UK target was 2030 until the last few months when the government pushed it to 2035.

Far dirtier and vastly more popular - just primarily in the developing world.

[Barrister]

My point on Europe is basically that it's not just Canada meeting that timeline - which means a lot of demand in a relatively short space of time. I think the UK target was 2030 until the last few months when the government pushed it to 2035.

Far dirtier and vastly more popular - just primarily in the developing world.

Ah yes - I wasn't thinking of the developing world.

As I understand it though motorcycles are particularly well suited to electrification.

[Grey Fox]

I think those rules are there to force manufacturers to actually supply the demand. Without them, the auto groups wouldn't put as many vehicles on the road.

Actually, Canada is that proof. We have great demand for electric vehicles & 3-4 years wait while manufacturers are supplying Europe because of their 2035 rules.

[Barrister]

I think those rules are there to force manufacturers to actually supply the demand. Without them, the auto groups wouldn't put as many vehicles on the road.

Actually, Canada is that proof. We have great demand for electric vehicles & 3-4 years wait while manufacturers are supplying Europe because of their 2035 rules.

OK, so maybe this is more particular to trucks... but this past summer we bought a new-ish truck.  The Ford Lightning had been the new hotness a year earlier with lengthy waiting lists, but by last summer dealerships had lots of lightnings and they had to cut costs.

I'm not sure the demand is quite so strong as you might think.  Which is why we should do more to increase the desireability of electric vehicles to be sure.

[crazy canuck]

Greater total impact - I'll try and find the stat because (like air miles or single use plastic) it's one of those things that's really counter-intuitive.

I feel like - as with calories/carbs etc - we could do with RAG on climate impact to help prioritise personally and socially.

Yeah, that is counter intuitive, I would be interested to see the analysis.

[crazy canuck]

I think those rules are there to force manufacturers to actually supply the demand. Without them, the auto groups wouldn't put as many vehicles on the road.

Actually, Canada is that proof. We have great demand for electric vehicles & 3-4 years wait while manufacturers are supplying Europe because of their 2035 rules.

OK, so maybe this is more particular to trucks... but this past summer we bought a new-ish truck.  The Ford Lightning had been the new hotness a year earlier with lengthy waiting lists, but by last summer dealerships had lots of lightnings and they had to cut costs.

I'm not sure the demand is quite so strong as you might think.  Which is why we should do more to increase the desireability of electric vehicles to be sure.

The problem is we, as a species, are running out of time to avoid 1.5 or higher warming.  Direct action is required.

[Sheilbh]

Ah yes - I wasn't thinking of the developing world.

As I understand it though motorcycles are particularly well suited to electrification.

Yeah - there's a huge potential impact there from most of humanity and most of the world's economy. Although it would need to be supported by making sure the power generated was clean. Why the biggest issue - which has the potential to blow literally everything else out the water - is whether India can grow (like China) without Chinese style emissions.

It's also why COP matters. It won't move at the speed of Western activitsts or even Western governments (coming from a place of plenty) - but it does include China and India, and hopefully we can help push them along (or better yet actually help them).

[Grey Fox]

@Barrister because I took too long to post this.

A 120 000$ pick up that can tow for about 45 minutes is not a great buy, I agree with you.

You are right, the desirability of electric vehicles is still quite low in low density & rural places. The technology just isn't there yet. It's coming tho.

The dream is Solid state batteries with consumption in the low 10s of kwh for 100km.

[Barrister]

@Barrister because I took too long to post this.

A 120 000$ pick up that can tow for about 45 minutes is not a great buy, I agree with you.

You are right, the desirability of electric vehicles is still quite low in low density & rural places. The technology just isn't there yet. It's coming tho.

The dream is Solid state batteries with consumption in the low 10s of kwh for 100km.

I mean electric trucks with current tech can still absolutely make sense - but you need a certain density of charging infrastructure.  Which will probably never exist in northern Canada.

And I think it's really dangerous to make laws and regulations that just assume future technological innovation.  I mean in my 48 years on this planet we've had tremendous innovation in certain areas, but something like fusion power has been 25-50 years away for at least 50 years.

[Barrister]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/court-will-hear-arguments-about-injunction-to-stop-edmonton-homeless-camp-removals-1.7062623

Edmonton Police announce plans to clear several homeless encampments from around the city.  Homeless advocates apply for an emergency injunction to stop them.

I can see one of these encampments right from my office window.  They're unsanitary, unsafe and built without any landowner or city approval whatsoever.  I've never really understood why they're tolerated to any degree whatsoever.  EPS's plan was certainly not to just go in and tear down the tents, but to have people from various agencies present so they could immediately find shelter beds for all impacted.

[Barrister]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/dismissal-of-dr-deena-hinshaw-from-indigenous-health-team-prompted-alberta-ethics-investigation-1.7060617

Dr. Deena Hinshaw was Alberta's Chief Medical Officer of Health, and gave daily / weekly briefings during the entire covid-19 pandemic.  She became a lightningrod of criticism to a certain population that was opposed to any measure of lockdown.  Once our new Premier came into office in part by riding that resentment Dr Hinshaw was quickly fired.  This is despite the fact that she was quite clear that she only advised, and that cabinet were the ones making decisions.  In fact, a lawsuit after the fact has found that Dr. Hinshaw was too deferential - that she had the power to impose public health orders, and shouldn't have just deferred to cabinet.

But anyways, she lost her job.  And there was nothing wrong with that firing - the CMOH does serve at the pleasure of cabinet.

But months later she applies for, and is given, a job within Alberta Health Services with an Indigenous Wellness Core.  This is a pure AHS hire, not something that would be reviewed through cabinet, and AHS is supposed to be an arms-length government body.

But as soon as news of the hiring was leaked government stepped in and immediately rescinded the appointment.  Now an inquiry has been launched with the ethics commissioner.

[viper37]

You can go "well it's only new vehicles" but those vehicles used in northern communities, which are primarily first nations, get heavy heavy miles put on them - which is why they can't be electric in the first place.

They rarely drive brand new vehicles over there, so not a factor immediately.
By the time this becomes the norm, we might have found a way around that.

We can't rule by exceptions.  How many vehicles are we talking here?  A couple thousands each year over 1.56 millions vehicles sold annually in Canada?  How many of these would be passenger vehicles concerned by this law?  2035 is 11 years away.  That leaves plenty of time to repeal the law if it becomes unrealistic by 2032.

[Josephus]

How long does it take to charge an electric car?

[Barrister]

How long does it take to charge an electric car?

Depends on lots of variables - size of the battery, type of charging infrasructure, how much charge (20-80% is much much faster than 0-100%).

Ideally, charging to 80% is supposed to take 30-40 minutes I understand with a really good charging station.  If you're just using a standard extension cord it can take days.