The Off Topic Topic

[crazy canuck]

Thanks for clarifying Grumbler.  Got it

[Tamas]

Wonderful and symbolic picture from Hungary of the official start of building a Reformed church nursery: kids out in the summer heat, priests under the shade:

[Valmy]

Just how God predestined it.

[grumbler]

Wonderful and symbolic picture from Hungary of the official start of building a Reformed church nursery: kids out in the summer heat, priests under the shade:

Maybe the kids are not vampires.

[Grey Fox]

When Priests are around it is important to keep all children within sight.

[Josquius]

When Priests are around it is important to keep all children within sight.

I can just imagine them beckoning the children to come into the dark...

[Sheilbh]

Australian referendum on the Indigenous Voice has taken a turn, which feels like it was predictable - and from a the clips I've seen of Australian news it looks like the No campaign is setting the terms of debate and that Yes was maybe a little over-confident/under-prepared for an actual fight:

[Jacob]

What's the referendum about?

[Sheilbh]

What's the referendum about?

Explainer from ABC:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-15/what-is-the-indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-australia/102317242

The key bit:

Where did this all start?

This is part of a reconciliation process that's been running for decades.

A key moment came at a historic meeting of First Nations people from across the country at the First Nations' National Constitutional Convention in 2017

As many as 250 Indigenous delegates met at Uluru and, after days of discussions, reached a consensus on a 440-word statement, now known at the Uluru Statement from the Heart.

It has three key objectives:
    1.Voice to Parliament
    2.Treaty
    3.Truth-telling


Women sing at the closing ceremony of talks that resulted in the Uluru Statement from the Heart.(ABC News: Stephanie Zillman)

The statement references the 1967 referendum, which changed the constitution to include Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in population counts, and gave the federal government the power to make laws for Indigenous Australians in the states.

What is the Voice to Parliament?

The Voice would provide permanent representation and recognition for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples in the Constitution.

It would be a new body that represents First Nations people from across Australia to provide their input into federal government, decisions, policies and laws that affect their lives.

This would be on matters relating to the social, spiritual and economic wellbeing of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

The Voice would be an advisory body, but it would not have powers to overrule parliament, commonly known as "veto" powers.

How would a Voice be structured?

The actual structure would depend on legislation after a "yes vote" in the referendum.

When the government is asked for details on the Voice, it points to a comprehensive report co-authored by Professors Tom Calma and Marcia Langton.

While it might change in the future, this is the structure suggested in that report:

The Voice would be made up of two parts: Local and  Regional Voices and a National Voice.

Let's go through the report's proposal for a National Voice first.

National Voice

The National Voice would have 24 members:
    Two from each state and territory — 16 all up
    Five from remote communities
    Two from the Torres Strait
    One representing Torres Strait Islanders living on the mainland

There must be a gender balance among the members.

Individuals would serve four-year terms and would only be allowed to serve twice.

Two full-time co-chairs would be elected by the members themselves.

Anthony Albanese announces the proposed wording of the Indigenous Voice to Parliament with the Referendum Working Group.(ABC News: Mark Moore)

The members of the National Voice will be elected by the Local and Regional Voices.

Let's take a look at how the report envisages these.

Local and Regional Voices

There would be 35 local Voices representing districts around the country.

Each one will be individually designed and run by the communities they represent.

This is to reflect that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities are many and varied.

The Local Voices would engage with all levels of government: local, state and federal.

The 35 local Voices are to reflect that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities are many and varied.(ABC: Michael Franchi)

What will the Voice do?

The Voice aims to give Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people all around the country a say in government policy.

The referendum working group advising the government says the design of the Voice will be guided by the following principles:
    It will provide independent advice to parliament and government.
    It will be chosen by First Nations people based on the wishes of local communities.
    It will be representative of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities.
    It will be empowering, community-led, inclusive, respectful, culturally informed and gender balanced. It will also include youth.
    It will be accountable and transparent.

What would the Voice not be able to do?

As an advisory body to the Australian parliament and government, the Voice is only there to provide advice.

It would not deliver services, manage government funding or mediate between Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander organisations.

And to even get a Voice to Parliament, we need a referendum.

The referendum requires a double majority - so a majority of votes nationally and a majority in a majority of states. The government has reserved the right to create a Voice to Parliament even if the referendum is rejected, but that would be challenging obviously. Even if it was endorsed the actual design of the Voice has not been set out - though the government points to recommendations from reviews - for example it's not clear if elections would be the way of choosing members of the Voice, if that would be the appropriate mechanism. So if the referendum is successful it's not the end of the process by any stretch.

There are indigenous leaders on both sides but I saw one prominent campaigner on issues of land (who supports the Voice) has said that it would be the failure of an entire generation of indigenous leaders if the referendum fails and that, for himself, he would "go silent" so the next generation can forge a new approach.

[Jacob]

Thanks!

[Grey Fox]

They should have brainstormed the name for a little longer.

[Razgovory]

All this electro-magnetism being shot into my brain is making me thirsty.

[Jacob]

Roblox getting sued for facilitate online gambling targetting minors:

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/privacy-and-data-security/roblox-accused-of-concocting-illegal-gambling-ring-for-minors

[Sheilbh]

Regret to announce I've become a full-blown cultural reactionary after reading this
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/20/is-it-time-to-embrace-badly-behaved-audiences

We need to bring back aggressively atonal serialist music, Artaudian theatre of cruelty and bracingly challenging novels. No more compromise with the audience

(Slightly more nuanced take - I think everyone is still wilding a little after covid. Baby screenings are great as are relaxed performances/screenings. But no, generally in the cinema, in the theatre, in the concert hall you shouldn't be on your phone, drunkenly dancing in the aisle, groping workers or having sex or watching porn

Also it seems to not even engage with how these rowdy audiences are for the people who are putting on a live performance or, say, cinema workers. Some audience members may feel a "dark pleasure" - not sure the cleaners or performers do )

[Duque de Bragança]

(Slightly more nuanced take - I think everyone is still wilding a little after covid. (...) But no, generally in the cinema, in the theatre, in the concert hall you shouldn't be on your phone, drunkenly dancing in the aisle, groping workers or having sex or watching porn

Back then when there were porn or even grindhouse cinemas, hence pre-Covid, some of the activities you mentioned were almost de rigueur.