Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

Started by mongers, August 06, 2014, 03:12:53 PM

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Jacob

Denmark to donate 19 F16 to Ukraine. Not sure how many Holland is providing.

Hopefully they'll be active soon.

The Brain

Putin's moon missile hit its target I hear.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: Jacob on August 20, 2023, 11:50:25 AMDenmark to donate 19 F16 to Ukraine. Not sure how many Holland is providing.

Hopefully they'll be active soon.

the total is 42 F16s

Josquius

Good to see the fighter donations.

Though I cant help but find it telling and amusing that the Netherlands and Denmark donating their old aircraft that they won't be needing at all in a few years is such a threat to Russia.
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PDH

#15169
Quote from: Josquius on August 20, 2023, 04:52:45 PMGood to see the fighter donations.

Though I cant help but find it telling and amusing that the Netherlands and Denmark donating their old aircraft that they won't be needing at all in a few years is such a threat to Russia., as you imply.

Russian aviation has not shown an ability to control the airspace over the warzone, I would think this implies less capabilities and less overall ability in this regard.  F-16s might be more capable, if well flown, than Russian air, as you imply.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

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"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

Tonitrus

Russian aviation isn't really the concern...Russian long-range SAMs are.

HVC

Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2023, 02:12:14 PMPutin's moon missile hit its target I hear.

A lead consultant fell ill during the investigation into the crash. At least he hasn't fallen out a window yet.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2023, 02:12:14 PMPutin's moon missile hit its target I hear.

A Ukrainian drone shot it down on descent

Maladict

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 20, 2023, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 20, 2023, 11:50:25 AMDenmark to donate 19 F16 to Ukraine. Not sure how many Holland is providing.

Hopefully they'll be active soon.

the total is 42 F16s

 The Dutch have 42, but no number was given. So the total number could be up to 61.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: Maladict on August 21, 2023, 01:56:17 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 20, 2023, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 20, 2023, 11:50:25 AMDenmark to donate 19 F16 to Ukraine. Not sure how many Holland is providing.

Hopefully they'll be active soon.

the total is 42 F16s

 The Dutch have 42, but no number was given. So the total number could be up to 61.

Indeed. Today's newspaper mentions 62 as the amount. Even better.

mongers

#15175
Deep inside Russia:



Details here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66573842
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

grumbler

I'm somewhat dubious about this picture.  For the plane to be flaming like that, it would have had to be fueled, which it normally wouldn't be if it was just sitting in its revetment. The Ukrainians could just have gotten lucky and hit a plane being prepped for a mission, though.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Barrister

Quote from: grumbler on August 22, 2023, 11:56:12 AMI'm somewhat dubious about this picture.  For the plane to be flaming like that, it would have had to be fueled, which it normally wouldn't be if it was just sitting in its revetment. The Ukrainians could just have gotten lucky and hit a plane being prepped for a mission, though.

Good point.  But I also certainly wouldn't be shocked if Ukrainians got intelligence precisely about when it was being prepped for a mission (either from their own sources, or from the US).

Between anti-Putin Russians, and ethnic Ukrainians living in Russia, there are a lot of potential intelligence sources inside of Russia...
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Barrister on August 22, 2023, 12:05:25 PMBetween anti-Putin Russians, and ethnic Ukrainians living in Russia, there are a lot of potential intelligence sources inside of Russia...
And perhaps not just sources. Haven't posted one of these in a while but that second bullet is very striking:
Let's bomb Russia!

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 20, 2023, 05:50:47 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 20, 2023, 03:39:08 AM'70s, really? More like 1962. Retroactive effect to 1957? Perhaps.

For NATO purposes, ditto.
After 1962 Algeria was immediately treated as a third country in relation to customs and their citizens, but it was legally unclear what the basis for that was.

It's not until the mid-70s that there's a treaty that formally excludes Algeria from the EEC - again it feels like you wouldn't have that if it wasn't at least arguable that purely legally they should have remained a member after 62.

The provisions on parts of a member state leaving (eg Scotland) are relatively new. Most European colonies weren't impacted because they were dealt with in Annexes to the Treaty of Rome so only bits of the EEC framework applied to them. Algeria is the exception as it was fully part of the EEC because it was France - and, as Monnet put it, with Algeria the centre of Europe is the Med, without it's the Rhine.

Algeria was not a colony, remember? Unlike the rest of French Africa.
Hence, most if not all the problems. Départements d'Oran, Alger et Constantine, subdivided later.

First time I see references to that legally unclear status, I recall reading documents about this issue being cleared quickly from the very beginning. Need to check the Accords d'Évian, very partially enforced, if at all, for a limited time at best, anyways.
 
It's not like in 1957, other European countries were too happy about the "European" status of Algerian départements, so I doubt that theoretical loophole, for which I am willing to believe you for now, really amounted to something.

As to Monnet's quote, when was it? In 1954, even the French Communists were against Algerian independence.

PS: check the Évian agreements nothing explicit about it, but independence is clearly stated, obviously.