Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Jacob

Now we just need to make that true when it comes to air superiority too.

Sheilbh

From Popbitch - what commitment to ruining someone's wedding :lol: :blink:
Quote>> Wedding hell <<
We all got mail

There's going to be some awfully awkward chatter in the pews at George Osborne's wedding on Saturday. Yesterday, the bulk of the happy couple's guest list (alongside a number of national newsdesks and a handful of Westminster power players, who were helpfully BCCed) received an eye-popping email from an anonymous sender.

Running to 2,500 words, with multiple attachments and links for further reading, most of the allegations it contains about George's personal conduct are absolutely extraordinary (and absolutely unprintable). Suffice to say, they all fall under the header of "Bombshells".

It's led to some feverish speculation as to who would do this in the run-up to the big day. A disgruntled former colleague? A disgruntled former wife?

Whoever it is, even the most hardened hacks on Fleet Street were left open-mouthed at the nerve required to send such an incendiary email. It's certainly not the most dignified way to air your grievances with the groom, but at least they had the good grace not to leave it until the vicar asked if anyone had any objections.
Let's bomb Russia!

HVC

Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Sheilbh

Couple of incredibly grim stories of sexual harassment and assault by the FT recently. First Crispin Odey a very successful hedge fund manager and founder of Odey Asset Management who sexually harassed and assaulted 13 women over 25 years in his companies.

Then today Sir David Adjaye an incredible architect, with his own firm possibly most famous for the National Museum of African-American History and Culture. Three women have come forward with their stories.

As with the various Pestminster stories (and the reports about the CBI) - I think it's really important this reporting keeps going. I think there is a lot more out there and I don't think there'll be enough of a change until very successful men like those two (or Nick Cohen) stop feeling safe in sexually harassing and assaulting their subordinates (these two targeted women as did the CBI allegations, but many of the Westminster stories often had male victims).
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Quote from: HVC on July 06, 2023, 03:12:55 PMtargeting a wedding? Has to be a salty ex :lol:
It's basically 2,500 words listing all of his various infidelities (starting with the Sir James Goldsmith line that "when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy") with links and attachments emailed to him, his fiancee, their guests and every journalist in London two days before his wedding.

I mean it's all basically unprintable because it's very tough to see the public interest and it's highly, highly actionable. But what amazing levels of pettiness to ruin someone's wedding. I think you could be right it feels like it's probably a very angry ex.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

In a trend of late - enjoyed this piece by Bagehot in the Economist:
QuoteBritons turn into Borat when it comes to health, housing and avocados
Column For Make Benefit of Glorious NHS
Jul 6th 2023

Even by the standards of Britain's odd love affair with the National Health Service (NHS), the organisation's 75th anniversary celebrations were weird. At a special service at Westminster Abbey on July 5th, the NHS's George Cross award (Britain's highest civilian accolade for gallantry, no less) was solemnly paraded. The prime minister and leader of the opposition gave readings. "The home of God is among mortals," said Sir Keir Starmer, the Labour leader, quoting Revelations in homage to an organisation that removes kidney stones. The Dean of Westminster declared that "The nhs sets before us all the better angels of our nature."

It was a bizarre spectacle. The NHS is distinctly average. "It is neither leader nor laggard," according to the King's Fund, a health think-tank. It is relatively cheap and efficient but still bad at tackling diseases such as cancer; life expectancy in Britain continues to lag behind that in other rich countries. And yet on its birthday, politicians, royals and 1,500 NHS wallahs crowded into a church to praise it as a remarkable achievement.

Making sense of Britain's peculiar attitude to the nhs is, however, easy. Just watch "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan". In the 2006 mockumentary, a reporter from a fictionalised Kazakhstan is sent to America. On his tour, the lovable bigot is blown away by everyday items. Upon entering his hotel room, he rolls on the bed in wonder, before laying eyes on a fantastic invention he is seeing for the first time: "Ohh la la! King in the castle. I have a chair, I have a chair!" A similar sensation overcomes Britons when it comes to their health-care system.

Britain has low expectations. Treating a bare necessity as wanton decadence is common. Bog-standard housing developments are described as "luxury". A redbrick, four-bed house in Lichfield, a cathedral city in the Midlands, is by no definition luxurious. Yet it is marketed that way and costs £400,000. Britain does not build luxury homes, it builds expensive ones.

Part of this is blissful ignorance. Britons sometimes seem unaware of how poor the country's housing stock is compared with elsewhere. Damp is treated as a fact of life. Double-glazing is still listed as a selling-point rather than a given on the same level as "four walls" and "roof". Britons resemble Borat entering a lift in a hotel and immediately unpacking, thinking it is his room for the night. When the bellboy explains Borat's error, the Kazakh is affronted: "I will not move to a smaller room."

When Britain does look abroad, it often peers in the wrong direction. To gauge the NHS, Britons put it against a cartoonish version of the American system, which manages to be expensive and inequitable, rather than myriad alternatives on offer in Europe. Comparing one poor system with another helps no one and leaves the person doing it resembling Borat showing off a decrepit vcr.

Borat-like wonder at the everyday has afflicted British politics, too. After the tenure of the haphazard Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak is lauded for the basics, such as actually reading his papers. Brexit, meanwhile, has lowered the bar of statesmanship to a surreal degree. Mr Sunak displayed political nous when renegotiating a deal with the European Union over Northern Ireland. Yet even this was fundamentally about the right to trade within a single state. The result was the peculiar sight of the prime minister boasting about being able to send seed potatoes across the Irish Sea. It conjured the patriotic lyrics of the fictional Kazakh anthem: "Kazakhstan, home of Tinshein swimming pool/Filtration system a marvel to behold/It remove 80% of human solid waste."

Minor pleasures are treated as big sins. An avocado, a fruit that costs about 75p ($0.95), is a byword for irresponsible consumerism, despite having a smaller carbon footprint than most meat. As Britain has become hotter—last summer peaked at 40°C—air-conditioning units have become more common. "Let's not pretend this new trend is anything other than extravagance," moaned a miserable op-ed in the Guardian, a newspaper, whining about both the expense and the emissions. And so comfort in a heatwave becomes decadence that would make Borat's eyes bulge.

Britain suffers from a form of "negative solidarity", argued Mark Fisher, a leftie critic: if one person suffers, so must others. For instance, Britain's state pension is not particularly high by European standards (although the fact all pensioners qualify for it is generous). But it still stokes resentment among youngsters. Likewise, oldies seem to care little that real wages have barely risen since 2008; by comparison, earnings in America and Europe have grown at a healthier clip. It is a worldview straight from Borat, who introduces his hated neighbour: "I get a window from a glass, he must get a window from a glass. I get a step, he must get a step. I get a clock radio, he cannot afford. Great success!"

Boratitude

Low expectations can hamper a nation. It is difficult to reform a health service if its birthday is greeted with celebrations usually reserved for a Neapolitan saint. Thankfully, cracks in the delusion have emerged. Britons may love their health-care system to a preposterous degree, but they are unhappy with its current service (although not to the point where they would countenance charging people for using it). Younger Britons who suffer most from dismal housing are increasingly angry about it. Outlandish boasts from Conservative ministers are no longer swallowed by voters, who increasingly want rid of them.

To truly rid itself of Boratitude, Britain must study all its peers more closely. British health care comes across as slightly Soviet if compared with, say, Denmark rather than America. Likewise, a glance at wages in America would hammer home just how lousy wage growth has been. A documentary could be made explaining these differences. "Cultural Learnings of America and Europe for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Britain" has a certain ring. ■

I'm glad someone else was a bit annoyed by that Guardian article. But it's not entirely new I remember reading, I think it was the David Kynaston ones, a social history of Britain and you had harrumphing from right and left about refridgeration - there was a lot of suspicion about it. On the right I think it's a legacy of class - doing without modern conveniences is a legacy of domestic service - and on the left I think there's a bit of a puritan streak. But you read the comments and basically there's a view that anything that makes life easier or more comfortably is highly suspect, probably dangerous and vulgarly American. I seem to remember that we only reached a maority of households owning a fridge in the 70s (just in time for the power outages :lol:).

There's something similar in the like 20 articles I've seen in the Guardian from basically every different angle on why these weight-loss drugs like Wegovy are bad actually - even though people being overweight and associated health conditions are a large and growing killer in the country (as well as pressure on the NHS).

It reminds me of (and I can't remember where I read it - possibly David Edgerton) there being a panel in the late 70s on computers where the view was broadly that they might be okay for Americans or Japanese, but not in Britain and that we should probably set up a committee of employers, trade unions and expert academics to decide which companies would be allowed to have them :lol: :bleeding:

Edit: Tamas reads this and is horrified to discover he's moved to a country that is making Eastern Bloc choices democratically :lol: :weep:
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas


Richard Hakluyt

More gratuitous tory unpleasantness :

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/07/robert-jenrick-has-cartoon-murals-painted-over-at-childrens-asylum-centre

"Murals of cartoon characters including Mickey Mouse and Baloo from The Jungle Book painted on the walls of an asylum seeker reception centre to welcome children have been removed on the orders of the immigration minister, Robert Jenrick.

The murals were painted over because he thought they were too welcoming and sent the wrong message.

Staff at the reception centre for small boats arrivals in Kent were horrified by the order, and opposed to painting over the murals.

Home Office sources declined to comment to the Guardian on the claims that staff had opposed Jenrick's instruction. The story was first reported in the i newspaper."

 :mad:

Josquius

With tories the cruelty is a feature, not a bug.
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Admiral Yi

Exactly how welcoming to be to asylum seekers is a legitimate policy debate.

Richard Hakluyt

It is just petty nastiness imo. It makes no difference as to whether their asylum claims are accepted or rejected, in the case of the genuine asylum-seekers a lot of them are traumatised, it only seems reasonable to not add unnecessary unpleasantness to the  bureaucratic processing.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 08, 2023, 03:15:57 AMIt is just petty nastiness imo. It makes no difference as to whether their asylum claims are accepted or rejected, in the case of the genuine asylum-seekers a lot of them are traumatised, it only seems reasonable to not add unnecessary unpleasantness to the  bureaucratic processing.

Removing the Jungle Book is an unnecessary unpleasantness only if you think lowering the number of undeserving applicants is not a worthwhile goal.

Syt

I doubt refugees choose their target country based on reading material and murals available in their accomodations.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Admiral Yi

Unless they see a correlation between that and their odds of staying in the country.

Tamas

God forbid we make traumatised children feel safe before we ditch them to Rwanda.