Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Sorry, what's the difference you're describing?

[Duque de Bragança]

Structural and chronological differences, you mentioned Spain and Portugal as if their slave trades were the same, at the same time, as the British ones (even for the French I would have reservations).

PS: judging by the last posts of this thread Olivier Pétré Grenouilleau's book: Les traites négrières, essai d'histoire globale does not seem to have been translated into English...
Tidiane N'Diaye's much more polemical The Veiled Genocide, was translated partially however. 

[Oexmelin]

Current estimates, Atlantic slave trade.

Spain: 1M
Portugal/Brazil: 5.8M
UK: 3.2M
Netherlands: 0.5M
USA: 0.3M
France: 1.3M
Denmark: 0.1M

Peak trade:

Spain: 1826-1850
Portugal/Brazil: 1826-1850
UK: 1751-1775
Netherlands: 1751-1775
USA: 1801-1825
France: 1776-1801
Denmark: 1776-1801

[Valmy]

How can the peak trade for the US be 1800-1825 when they outlawed it in 1808?

[Oexmelin]

Precisely because traders rushed to get as many slaves as they could before it became outlawed.

Biggest year for tHat time span was 1807 with 36k.

[Valmy]

Precisely because traders rushed to get as many slaves as they could before it became outlawed.

Biggest year for tHat time span was 1807 with 36k.

Ah ok I get it. It was just the 25 year period with the most slave trading, not that the trading happened during that entire period.

Kind of amazing they managed to do more trading in that 8 year period than the entire 1776-1800 period, war or no.

[Razgovory]

Fair enough.
We are taking about people of note rather than just randomers who have a plantation owner ancestor here though.
I see no harm in these people apologising for the harm their ancestor caused.
The only possible downside I see is the HR/lawyer  one of potentially opening a can of wormy trouble for yourself.
As far as admitting your ancestor did a bad thing with slavery goes ... Seems pretty common sense to me.

Apologies for things you didn't actually do are disingenuous and tedious.

[Oexmelin]

Kind of amazing they managed to do more trading in that 8 year period than the entire 1776-1800 period, war or no.

Yup. 1800 to 1808 is a bit more than a third of the voyages originating from places now USA.

[Sheilbh]

Structural and chronological differences, you mentioned Spain and Portugal as if their slave trades were the same, at the same time, as the British ones (even for the French I would have reservations).

There's definitely chronological differences - although that's not really the comparison I was meaning to draw. What's the structural difference though?

[Josquius]

Fair enough.
We are taking about people of note rather than just randomers who have a plantation owner ancestor here though.
I see no harm in these people apologising for the harm their ancestor caused.
The only possible downside I see is the HR/lawyer  one of potentially opening a can of wormy trouble for yourself.
As far as admitting your ancestor did a bad thing with slavery goes ... Seems pretty common sense to me.

Apologies for things you didn't actually do are disingenuous and tedious.

So German and Japanese politicians apologising for the war are pointless?

[Tamas]

Just read a bit of coronation trivia: the whole thing is so well placed in modern times, that we'll have our Hindu Prime Minister read from the Bible as part of it. 

Considerably more stomach-turning is that people will be asked to recite an oath "with millions of voices". Luckily I have already sworn allegiance to Elizabeth II and her heirs so I have that covered.

[Sheilbh]

Considerably more stomach-turning is that people will be asked to recite an oath "with millions of voices". Luckily I have already sworn allegiance to Elizabeth II and her heirs so I have that covered.

Of course the section of Elizabeth's ceremony that's replacing is when the peers were asked to recite an oath - so the "homage of the peers" has been replaced with the "homage of the people" (almost Blairite).

And it will be for "all who so desire" - and I for one can't imagine anything more contemporary sacral than pledging allegiance at my TV screen

[Josquius]

My eyes bleed at the thought of how hard the biffers will be at this.

[garbon]

The Republicans seem a bit silly when they claim this is an offense to the people of Britain.

[Sheilbh]

The Republicans seem a bit silly when they claim this is an offense to the people of Britain.

I am a very ideological republican - I think monarchy is fundamentally wrong and should be ended. But I do always think groups like Republic probably hurt more than help the cause and I find them quite embarassing They have very strong Liz Truss when she was a Lib Dem energy.

Also, I think because they get most attention during royal events, which are often bank holidays, and they spend their time moaning it they kind of play into the British association of republicans = puritans. They always slightly give off a bit of this vibe: