Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[celedhring]

With China the question still remains whether this is the preparation for something or they just wanted to look important and now going to remain passive.

Honestly this feels just performative. The "plan" is just a bunch of vague declarations that are just a restatement of China's official position throughout the war, with no concrete proposals.

That doesn't mean it cannot be used as a pretext for more involvement.

I'd be more convinced of that if the plan contained concrete actionable steps that China knows the west/ukraine will always refuse.

The fact the Ukrainians have perfunctorily welcomed the plan means it's a nothingburger.

[mongers]

First Leopards have arrived in Ukraine

Well done the Netherlands?

[Sheilbh]

Poland, I think.

Edit: More complicatedly the Netherlands doesn't actually own any Leopards. They lease 18 from Germany. Rutte suggested they could buy them from Germany and deliver to Ukraine, however after Dutch-German consultations they decided that they shouldn't come from the German-owned Dutch-leased battalion.

Instead the Dutch are contributing, with Denmark and Germany, on the refurbishmet of 178 Leopard 1s.

[mongers]

Poland, I think.

Edit: More complicatedly the Netherlands doesn't actually own any Leopards. They lease 18 from Germany. Rutte suggested they could buy them from Germany and deliver to Ukraine, however after Dutch-German consultations they decided that they shouldn't come from the German-owned Dutch-leased battalion.

Instead the Dutch are contributing, with Denmark and Germany, on the refurbishmet of 178 Leopard 1s.

Thanks for the info Shelf, I haven't been following the news much over the last few days.

[Maladict]

Yeah they're Polish. Nice timing, too.

[Barrister]

Poland, I think.

Edit: More complicatedly the Netherlands doesn't actually own any Leopards. They lease 18 from Germany. Rutte suggested they could buy them from Germany and deliver to Ukraine, however after Dutch-German consultations they decided that they shouldn't come from the German-owned Dutch-leased battalion.

Instead the Dutch are contributing, with Denmark and Germany, on the refurbishmet of 178 Leopard 1s.

Which is great, but the Ukrainians need tanks now, not in 6 months once they're refurbished.

[Grey Fox]

What did the Netherlands do with the LP2s Canada bought them?

Answered below by Maladict.

[Maladict]

Edit: More complicatedly the Netherlands doesn't actually own any Leopards. They lease 18 from Germany.

More complicated still, they were actually the last 18 Dutch Leopards. The others were sold to Austria, Canada, Norway and Finland, after a near-final deal with Indonesia was blocked by the Dutch government. The final 18 were gifted back to Germany, where they were modernized and then leased back to the Netherlands.

The tanks and their Dutch crews form a company within the German 414th Batallion, which is part of the Dutch 43rd Mechanized Brigade, which is part of the German 1st Panzer Division.

[The Larch]

I had no idea that Germany and the Netherlands had joint military units.

[The Larch]

Ukranian flag painted in the street in front of the Russian embassy in London.

[Sheilbh]

I had no idea that Germany and the Netherlands had joint military units.

Same - that's interesting.

[Barrister]

https://twitter.com/crockett_3000/status/1629163657450905600

Video of Zelenskyy needing translation from the Russian language.






(Zelenskyy's Ukrainian has improved a lot since becoming President, but he started out only speaking Russian, and had a successful career in television in Russia before his Servant of the People tv show)

[Sheilbh]

Still got his comic skills

[Zanza]

I had no idea that Germany and the Netherlands had joint military units.

There has been a German/Dutch corps for a while and there was recently news that all Dutch land forces are now planned to be integrated with German units. Germany also has units shared with France, Poland and Denmark.

[mongers]

Graveyard near Mariupol.