Most American young men are single. Most young women are not.

[Admiral Yi]

Do you think there's actually been a change in middle aged female behavriour? I always had the whole "Karen" thing down to a social media fashion to look for, name, and share a certain set of behaviour that always existed.

I don't know.  Both are plausible to me.

[Barrister]

There's a lot of factors out there (like social media and availability of porn), but in our parents generation (mine are firmly Baby Boomers - your parents are older I guess) a man with a high school education (or not even that) could go out and get a well-paying job right away with nothing more than being a physical labourer.  Women, what with the general attitude of discrimination against women plus the relative unimportance of unskilled indoor work, generally could not.

It is kind of odd though because today labor, especially anything having to do with construction, seems much more expensive than it used to be. It seems like if you wanted to become a contractor or a plumber or those kinds of careers you could do pretty well right out of High School...at least by the standards of somebody that age.

Contractor or plumber takes some level of skill and training.

[Grey Fox]

I still say that we overthink this.

We've, collectively, spent the last 60 years teaching our daughters to not accept behaviours that are still prevalent in young men. We can't start wondering why these women now are not interested in these young men.

[Admiral Yi]

A "Karen" is typically an entitled middle-aged woman, most likely married (whether happy or not).

Not that I have evidence to the contrary, but how do you know this?  The Karen clips I watch don't provide much in the way of bios.

[Barrister]

I still say that we overthink this.

We've, collectively, spent the last 60 years teaching our daughters to not accept behaviours that are still prevalent in young men. We can't start wondering why these women now are not interested in these young men.

We've been teaching our sons not to do certain behaviours as well though.

[Valmy]

I still say that we overthink this.

We've, collectively, spent the last 60 years teaching our daughters to not accept behaviours that are still prevalent in young men. We can't start wondering why these women now are not interested in these young men.

Interesting. What sort of behaviors are you talking about?

[Barrister]

A "Karen" is typically an entitled middle-aged woman, most likely married (whether happy or not).

Not that I have evidence to the contrary, but how do you know this?  The Karen clips I watch don't provide much in the way of bios.

Entitled and middle aged is pretty self-explanatory.

Married (or I should add, divorced) comes from the entitled part - they don't strike me as women who feel like no man is interested in them.  As much as you can characterize such a carefully well constructed meme as the "Karen".

[Valmy]

There's a lot of factors out there (like social media and availability of porn), but in our parents generation (mine are firmly Baby Boomers - your parents are older I guess) a man with a high school education (or not even that) could go out and get a well-paying job right away with nothing more than being a physical labourer.  Women, what with the general attitude of discrimination against women plus the relative unimportance of unskilled indoor work, generally could not.

It is kind of odd though because today labor, especially anything having to do with construction, seems much more expensive than it used to be. It seems like if you wanted to become a contractor or a plumber or those kinds of careers you could do pretty well right out of High School...at least by the standards of somebody that age.

Contractor or plumber takes some level of skill and training.

True but it is apprenticeship type deals right? Something you can do right out of High School right?

[HVC]

I still say that we overthink this.

We've, collectively, spent the last 60 years teaching our daughters to not accept behaviours that are still prevalent in young men. We can't start wondering why these women now are not interested in these young men.

Interesting. What sort of behaviors are you talking about?

And that 60% of men are behaviourly subpar?

[HVC]

True but it is apprenticeship type deals right? Something you can do right out of High School right?

Depends on the work and the location. In ontario alot of the apprenticeships require being in the union first. To do that some unions require course work first (if not in writing then in practice). One of the reasons the construction industry is way undermanned in regards to young workers. But still easier then getting a low paying office job after 4 years of university.

[Grey Fox]

I still say that we overthink this.

We've, collectively, spent the last 60 years teaching our daughters to not accept behaviours that are still prevalent in young men. We can't start wondering why these women now are not interested in these young men.

Interesting. What sort of behaviors are you talking about?

Lack of emotional intelligence and immaturity generally leads to an over reliance on physical intimidation. My casual use of twitch and Instagram show young men haven't change and still expect young women to conform to them and their needs.

[Grey Fox]

I still say that we overthink this.

We've, collectively, spent the last 60 years teaching our daughters to not accept behaviours that are still prevalent in young men. We can't start wondering why these women now are not interested in these young men.

Interesting. What sort of behaviors are you talking about?

And that 60% of men are behaviourly subpar?

Young men? Of course. We're borderline humans before 25.

[Valmy]

Lack of emotional intelligence and immaturity generally leads to an over reliance on physical intimidation. My casual use of twitch and Instagram show young men haven't change and still expect young women to conform to them and their needs.

All young people have a lack of emotional intelligence and have immaturity generally. And certainly the perception is that young men are particularly deficient in this way, again my experience of being a young man is that everybody kind of treats you like you are a jackass. That is the baseline assumption you have to work against.

But nonetheless I am skeptical of reliance on physical intimidation. Sure back in the 1980s when I was a kid people took a more "boys will be boys" attitude where bullying and fights were just kind of tolerated. But these days it seems like adults have no tolerance at all for that kind of thing. I think there is just much more awareness about the damage of bullying...or maybe they are afraid of some bullied kid coming back to do a mass shooting or something. Granted that is my suburban white person in Texas experience. It may be different elsewhere. But at least in my world that kind of thing is not tolerated at all now, whereas in the past it was winked and nodded at.

But tell me about your twitch and Instagram experiences. I see my kids on the internet and I don't see much of that kind of intimidation.

[Valmy]

Young men? Of course. We're borderline humans before 25.

That is certainly how I was treated, sure 

[Sheilbh]

Lack of emotional intelligence and immaturity generally leads to an over reliance on physical intimidation. My casual use of twitch and Instagram show young men haven't change and still expect young women to conform to them and their needs.

I think there's a lot to this - and I think there's a lot of dodgy "advice" for young men online. Andrew Tate's at the most extreme end but he's not unique. It's obviously a piss-take but whenever I read about the online world a lot of young men are in, I think of this UK internet meme:


I also think there's other stuff going on with young men. I've mentioned before but I really think there's a problem with young men and body image/diet/exercise - again being weaponised by online bell-ends and the far right.