The Rowling vs. Trans People Hijack

[garbon]

Also why are you bringing in race?

Because a half Indian dude gets more PC legitimacy points than a totally white dude.

Seems unrelated to Jos's point.

[Barrister]

Yet despite having been asked to twice, you have failed to specify the basis on which you accuse Rowling of being transphobic. Since her primary opposition is against self-ID and the protection of women's only spaces you presumably must think  that is a transphobic, far right position.

I'll ask again. What is it that Rowling has actually said that you consider makers her transphobic and far right?

The arrogance of a cis straight man telling trans women how they are supposed to feel about someone who has said stuff that offends them is beyond me.

Jos - are you not in fact a cis straight man?

This is a weird play of the identity card, I must admit.  In particular since you're playing it against Gups, a non-white cis straight man.

Also why are you bringing in race?

Because Jos brought identity into it.

To be clear - I think one's argument should stand by itself, without any reference to the ID of the person making it.  But Jos is the one who suddenly brought ID into the equation.

For the record - I am a white, cis, het, male, and acknowledge all the privilege that comes with that status.   

Although weirdly and for whatever little it is worth - I am also an ethnic Ukrainian.  Which for my entire life I never thought of as being an oppressed identity until the last 12 months.

[Admiral Yi]

Seems unrelated to Jos's point.

Only if you think race and gender identity are totally unrelated, which is not correct. 

[garbon]

Because Jos brought identity into it.

To be clear - I think one's argument should stand by itself, without any reference to the ID of the person making it.  But Jos is the one who suddenly brought ID into the equation.

For the record - I am a white, cis, het, male, and acknowledge all the privilege that comes with that status.   

Although weirdly and for whatever little it is worth - I am also an ethnic Ukrainian.  Which for my entire life I never thought of as being an oppressed identity until the last 12 months.

Au contraire, Jos just copied the format that Gups introduced.

But if it is not a simple matter, why is it ok to so quickly brand people on the other side of arguments into the details of it "hate groups" and such?

Exactly. You can't have a reasonable discussion with people like Jos. You disagree and you are transphobic, part of the hard right, a member of a hate group.

The arrogance of a man telling abused women how they are supposed to feel about safe spaces is beyond me.

[garbon]

Seems unrelated to Jos's point.

Only if you think race and gender identity are totally unrelated, which is not correct. 

I'm not sure being non-white introduces a more 'privileged' lens into the matter.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm not sure being non-white introduces a more 'privileged' lens into the matter.

Being a member of an oppressed group gives one standing in the PC world.

[garbon]

I'm not sure being non-white introduces a more 'privileged' lens into the matter.

Being a member of an oppressed group gives one standing in the PC world.

What is the PC world? This?

[Admiral Yi]

What is the PC world? This?

People who buy into the central tenets of political correctness.

[DGuller]

Nothing promotes inclusion more than "you're a cis male, you need to STFU".

[Habbaku]

Really wish y'all would realize it's just "Rowling". I give a pass to the eggplant, but come on.

[garbon]

Nothing promotes inclusion more than "you're a cis male, you need to STFU".

So you ignore Gups's formulation of "you're a man, you need to STFU"?

[mongers]

....

Because Jos brought identity into it.

To be clear - I think one's argument should stand by itself, without any reference to the ID of the person making it.  But Jos is the one who suddenly brought ID into the equation.

For the record - I am a white, cis, het, male, and acknowledge all the privilege that comes with that status.   

Although weirdly and for whatever little it is worth - I am also an ethnic Ukrainian.  Which for my entire life I never thought of as being an oppressed identity until the last 12 months.

That explains why the Russian invasion of Ukraine as been so piss poor, if they've been staging it via having invaded Canada.

[DGuller]

Nothing promotes inclusion more than "you're a cis male, you need to STFU".

So you ignore Gups's formulation of "you're a man, you need to STFU"?

I didn't ignore it, I just didn't see it.

[Barrister]

....

Because Jos brought identity into it.

To be clear - I think one's argument should stand by itself, without any reference to the ID of the person making it.  But Jos is the one who suddenly brought ID into the equation.

For the record - I am a white, cis, het, male, and acknowledge all the privilege that comes with that status.   

Although weirdly and for whatever little it is worth - I am also an ethnic Ukrainian.  Which for my entire life I never thought of as being an oppressed identity until the last 12 months.

That explains why the Russian invasion of Ukraine as been so piss poor, if they've been staging it via having invaded Canada.

[Gups]

Nothing promotes inclusion more than "you're a cis male, you need to STFU".

So you ignore Gups's formulation of "you're a man, you need to STFU"?

Not my formulation.

There's a big difference between (a) telling abused women that they should accept a change in law allowing self ID trans women entry into refuges because it is irrational for them to feel unsafe and (b) denying trans people unchallengeable jurisdiction over the definition of the word "transphobic", especially since the latter can be a criminal offence.