Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Admiral Yi]

What don't you understand?

The hubbub.  The kerfluffle.  The to do.  The outrage.  How it is an escalation.  Why the UN is spending time talking about it. 

[Habbaku]

It's just "kerfuffle".

[Berkut]

What don't you understand?

The hubbub.  The kerfluffle.  The to do.  The outrage.  How it is an escalation.  Why the UN is spending time talking about it. 

I don't understand your lack of understanding.

By and large the international community is not happy Russia is engaged in a war of conquest against their neighbor.

They want the rest of the international community to oppose such wars.

Iran, instead of opposing that war, is actively helping the agressor.

So other countries are scolding Iran.

It seems pretty straightforward.

[Jacob]

There are also the practical implications:

An Iranian Ballistic Missile Storm Is On Ukraine's Horizon[/b]
Ukraine has little defense against Russia's Iranian ballistic missiles, which could pummel the country's energy infrastructure as winter hits.

It has become abundantly clear that absent battlefield successes, Russia is now going to make the Ukrainian people suffer as badly as possible — via conventional attacks on critical infrastructure — in an attempt to break their will. This strategy has been highlighted by the now constant strikes on Ukrainian power generation and electricity distribution infrastructure via cruise missiles and Iranian long-range suicide drones.

Now, just as we predicted, all indications point to Russia acquiring hundreds of Iranian short-range ballistic missiles, like the Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar types. This is a much bigger problem than many seem to realize, including for those living in the vast majority of Ukrainian territory that remains outside of Moscow's control. Simply put, these weapons will be very challenging if not impossible for Ukraine to defend against, they pack a major punch, and they can strike nearly anywhere in the country, putting Ukraine's already battered energy infrastructure, in particular, at extreme risk.

...

t has become abundantly clear that absent battlefield successes, Russia is now going to make the Ukrainian people suffer as badly as possible — via conventional attacks on critical infrastructure — in an attempt to break their will. This strategy has been highlighted by the now constant strikes on Ukrainian power generation and electricity distribution infrastructure via cruise missiles and Iranian long-range suicide drones.

Now, just as we predicted, all indications point to Russia acquiring hundreds of Iranian short-range ballistic missiles, like the Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar types. This is a much bigger problem than many seem to realize, including for those living in the vast majority of Ukrainian territory that remains outside of Moscow's control. Simply put, these weapons will be very challenging if not impossible for Ukraine to defend against, they pack a major punch, and they can strike nearly anywhere in the country, putting Ukraine's already battered energy infrastructure, in particular, at extreme risk.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/an-iranian-ballistic-missile-storm-is-on-ukraines-horizon
(The article is longer than what I've quoted)

Iranian missiles are going to be used to put millions of Ukrainian civilians in a position where they have to live through Ukraine's winter without heat, water, and/ or electricity for extended periods of time.

That is a warcrime, human rights abuse, and will likely result in massive civilian casualties.

[Grey Fox]

What don't you understand?

The hubbub.  The kerfluffle.  The to do.  The outrage.  How it is an escalation.  Why the UN is spending time talking about it. 

I don't understand your lack of understanding.

By and large the international community is not happy Russia is engaged in a war of conquest against their neighbor.

They want the rest of the international community to oppose such wars.

Iran, instead of opposing that war, is actively helping the agressor.

So other countries are scolding Iran.

It seems pretty straightforward.

It also undermines what seems to be the #1 objectives of the West in the conflict. To not be at war with Russia. Each Russian escalation leads to an answer from us.

What will be our answer to the Iran ballistic barrage?

[OttoVonBismarck]

I mean Iran is a weak country, we can bomb them at will. Not that we will do so, or even should, but we have a lot of options if we decide to use them against Iran. Iran has no one's protection and few friends. China and Russia enjoy trade with Iran but don't remotely extend protection to it.

[grumbler]

I seems to me that Israel has a bunch of Arrow 2 missiles excess to their needs since they've deployed Arrow 3s.  I'll bet at least some IDF generals would be happy to see how well they perform against Iranian ballistic missiles.

[Threviel]

With regards to Gripen, there aren't that many around. 271 has been built in total, 28 leased to Czechia and Hungary, 18 to South Africa, 12 to Thailand, mostly new construction for Brazil. Some 60ish for the Swedish air force and that's it when it comes to modernised Gripens. The rest are either in long term storage or scrapped and can be presumed to be older models.

The production lines are busy building for Sweden and Brazil.

So while Gripen would be good enough to blow the orks out of the sky there just aren't enough of them around, seeing as the Ukrainians would need a lot of air planes to make a difference in the war.

The F-16 is the obvious answer, there are thousands around in storage in the US and there's enough logistical support to meet all Ukrainian needs. There's also the added bonus of just having one type to focus on, a hodge podge of different types like they have in ground vehicles would be better than nothing, but even better with a stream-lined air force.

Sweden should, in my mind, focus on building artillery and armoured vehicles for Ukraine, since we have production lines of those running. I contacted all my local parliamentarians to get them to increase production back in February/March, but as far as I know nothing has been done.

[Berkut]

The F-16 is the swiss army knife of modern air combat.

It can be cheap and effective, or expensive and very effective. It can do almost everything you can imagine you need doing (other then going up against anything remotely 5th gen) quite well.

[Razgovory]

The F-16 is the swiss army knife of modern air combat.

Do the Ukrainians really need a plane that can turn into a spoon?

[Tamas]

I am sorry but I keep thinking the Guardian is on a "peace drive". After publishing an Orban-level "America must end the war in Ukraine!" article from some useful idiot traitor a couple of days ago which I covered in the UK thread, they picked up the Washington Post article around supposed American peace-feelers a couple days late and ran a long article on it, and now their daily news feed on the war has the title "Russia-Ukraine war live news: US confirms 'communications channels' with Kremlin;" and then you read the actual news and its the line between the defense ministries that has been there for quite a while now.

[Josquius]

I am sorry but I keep thinking the Guardian is on a "peace drive". After publishing an Orban-level "America must end the war in Ukraine!" article from some useful idiot traitor a couple of days ago which I covered in the UK thread, they picked up the Washington Post article around supposed American peace-feelers a couple days late and ran a long article on it, and now their daily news feed on the war has the title "Russia-Ukraine war live news: US confirms 'communications channels' with Kremlin;" and then you read the actual news and its the line between the defense ministries that has been there for quite a while now.

The BBC is reporting about us-Russia communications too. For some reason it has been decided as news worthy that a senior official has confirmed channels are indeed open.



I wonder more broadly from fight to the end types: what about the US political situation?
The republicans are outright saying that they won't support Ukraine. And given the new wall of meat being thrown at them a victory before the next presidential election looks unlikely, a victory before the US government is crippled impossible.

I do maintain that a smart move for Ukraine would be to position themselves as the rational ones who are willing to stop fighting and talk, even if the conditions they set are still those Russia wouldn't accept - I do think rather than demanding crimea be entirely handed over to them that suggesting international peace keepers would be a wise neutral compromise that Russia would reject.

[Tamas]

as the rational ones who are willing to stop fighting and talk

Stopping to talk right now as the Ukrainians would be an extremely irrational thing to do. Russia has been in retreat for months and they are already relying on weapons bought from a country under international sanctions for decades.

[The Brain]

I think it's way too early to let the GOP determine Ukrainian policy. Also, even if the US actually stops supporting Ukraine European countries might continue with their support, since Ukrainian victory is very important for their own vital security interests, unlike the US.

[Josquius]

as the rational ones who are willing to stop fighting and talk

Stopping to talk right now as the Ukrainians would be an extremely irrational thing to do. Russia has been in retreat for months and they are already relying on weapons bought from a country under international sanctions for decades.

Please don't trim quotes in such a way as to completely alter the meaning.