Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Richard Hakluyt]

Its about 107,000 people per MP. An MP is not a particularly grand person and it is easy enough to speak to one at one of their "surgeries". That aspect would be diluted if we reduced their numbers.

Also, a government has something like 120 "payroll" jpbs that can be used to ensure loyalty and discipline in the parliamentary party ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_vote ). That still leaves at least 50% of the ruling party as backbenchers and hence able to be more critical of the government. Reduce the total number of MPs too much and they might all end up being on the payroll...the payroll vote has been increasing in recent years as it is 

[The Brain]

Sweden has 29k per MP, which is insanely low. The bloated Riksdag is full of anonymous nonentities.

[Jacob]

Sweden has 29k per MP, which is insanely low. The bloated Riksdag is full of anonymous nonentities.

Seems reasonable in representative democracy; Sweden is full of anonymous nonentities.

[The Brain]

Sweden has 29k per MP, which is insanely low. The bloated Riksdag is full of anonymous nonentities.

Seems reasonable in representative democracy; Sweden is full of anonymous nonentities.

I was murdered.

[Josquius]

Could always reduce constituencies without reducing MPs.
In places like the Highlands this would be tricky but in most of the country the idea of a seat representing a community is already pretty broken. Why not make bigger collections of communities and give some more democratic representation whilst we're at it.

[Richard Hakluyt]

That is one route into proportional representation; its the way we elected our Euro Mps back in the day.

OTOH, it may do an MP good to listen to moans from the other side at his surgeries.

[Josquius]

That is one route into proportional representation; its the way we elected our Euro Mps back in the day.

OTOH, it may do an MP good to listen to moans from the other side at his surgeries.

I wouldn't go so far as the EU regions (which were dumb. Cumbria belongs with the NE), but merging 2 or 3 similar seats together shouldn't weaken the local link too much.

But yes. It could be interesting for our divided society when you have a right and a left MP so everyone can just go to 'their side'. Maybe needs some sort of law about official constituent communications to one automatically going to both? Or perhaps speaks to how 2 is a bad number and it should be skipped straight to 3.

[celedhring]

I can't avoid chuckling a little every time I see Brits calling an MP meeting their constituents a "surgery"

[Tamas]

I can't avoid chuckling a little every time I see Brits calling an MP meeting their constituents a "surgery"

This is a nice but very odd place.

[crazy canuck]

That map hurts my head, for a country of 60 million? Ya'll need to reduce the number of constituencies by like 200 or more.

You have to remember the UK is a unitary state - provincial (state) and federal all wrapped into one. 

[OttoVonBismarck]

That map hurts my head, for a country of 60 million? Ya'll need to reduce the number of constituencies by like 200 or more.

You have to remember the UK is a unitary state - provincial (state) and federal all wrapped into one. 

Except not really, right? It has three devolved Parliaments, local councils etc.

[The Brain]

This FT video seems to suggest that Brexit has developed not necessarily to the UK's advantage. Is this true?

[Tamas]

I didn't check but allegedly even the Telegraph lead recently with a "let's admit it, Brexit was a mistake" article. Would be funny if true, The Telegraph more anti-Brexit than Sheilbh. 

[crazy canuck]

That map hurts my head, for a country of 60 million? Ya'll need to reduce the number of constituencies by like 200 or more.

You have to remember the UK is a unitary state - provincial (state) and federal all wrapped into one. 

Their local council is like municipal council

Except not really, right? It has three devolved Parliaments, local councils etc.

[Sheilbh]

Its about 107,000 people per MP. An MP is not a particularly grand person and it is easy enough to speak to one at one of their "surgeries". That aspect would be diluted if we reduced their numbers.

Yeah and it is interesting that even the most passionately pro-PR politicians in the UK say the constituency link is really important and valuable for that reason. I think the Scottish and German model where you have a proportion of constituency MPs plus a regional top-up list would work best.

Even on the payroll vote I think it does have a useful humbling effect - if you look at the Twitter feed of even the grandest of the great offices of state it'll be ministerial work mixed with "delighted to be at x school" local stuff. I think Alastair Darling spoke about it after the financial crisis when he said many of his counterparts were technocrats or not elected and always said they couldn't understand how you could be a finance minister while still have to run for election, and he said he couldn't understand how you couldn't if you didn't have that connection with a community/place and its people.

I didn't check but allegedly even the Telegraph lead recently with a "let's admit it, Brexit was a mistake" article. Would be funny if true, The Telegraph more anti-Brexit than Sheilbh. 

It was an opinion piece by Jeremy Warner, who's assistant editor at the Telegraph and has a regular column. He backed remain in 2016 so I'm not sure it's the massive shift people seemed to think it was. My point is it's fine saying Brexit's a mistake but it doesn't get you anywhere because it's happened

Similarly I find the conspiracy of silence/"we can't talk about Brexit" idea just pitiful - it reminds me of "no-one wants to talk about immigration", when it was one of the biggest issues in politics. There is no bit of data or anything like that that will lead to mass repentence. There is no deus ex machina to reverse time or undo Brexit. There won't be a moment of catharsis for remainers when they feel vindicated.

I've mentioned it before but I remember listening to a guy who set up a big campaign for Britain to re-join which got lots of people to sign up. And he was just talking about the external forces that were going to somehow deliver this - there's problems with the press, the Labour Party were a bit of a lost hope for now apparently, the Lib Dems were good but weak and there were still a few sensible Tories (which I think rather gave away his instincts). I probably wouldn't back re-joing but even I was just infuriated. He's set up the campaign, got millions signed up - go and do some campaigning, make it happen, indulge in some light entryism. There was no sense that there was any organisation or political work for him or this campaign to do; it was all just going to happen once people realised they'd made a mistake - and the extent of political activity required would be to retweet articles and listen to The Rest is Politics. It still annoys me