What does a BIDEN Presidency look like?

[OttoVonBismarck]

There's also a lot of false narrative going on around it, right? For one, because these bus rides are voluntary, they can get off anytime they want. There's been several stories detailing that some of these migrants, who might at least occasionally be more savvy than Abbott, are just using the buses to get to places like Tennessee. There are several States that aren't "intended" as part of Abbott's messaging who have had buses full of migrants hop off when the bus stops to refuel in their state. You will note Abbott does not crow about that on Fox News, or even acknowledge that it is happening.

The other big thing is people who are here awaiting asylum claims are neither undocumented or illegal, in fact they are taking part in a statutorily defined, legal process, and they have specific documents as per that process.

On top of that, we actually have a formal refugee resettlement program, largely dividing the country into different geographic areas and heavily sponsored by large church organizations (the Catholic Church is a major part of it, but some of the largest Protestant denominations get involved too.) Part of that program is actually designed so they all don't just "collect" right at the point of entry, or at a few specific big cities. That's why "random" cities like Minneapolis and Columbus, OH are some of the big destinations for the formal resettlement program--big cities that can offer services, but that are in states with stagnant population growth that don't generally attract a ton of "natural" immigration. Abbott has many ways to shuttle these people through that process more expeditiously, he is choosing to just cause problems to make a political point, which is not really praiseworthy in any real sense.

[The Larch]

That takes away any moral high ground Governor Abbott would have otherwise had.

Why did you presume he had any to begin with?

But still the point is: it's easy to proclaim yourself open to undocumented migrants when you don't actually receive very many.  I've made this same complaint about Canada several times.  It says a lot that NYC and DC and loudly complaining about receiving a few bussfulls of migrants when Texas receives almost that many on a daily basis.

Oh yes, of course, NYC barely gets any inmigrants, for sure.

[The Minsky Moment]

So there's kind of a point here.

No there really isn't.
Lots of these immigrants are refugees fleeing Cuba and Venezuela.  Want to reduce that flow?  Easy - recognize the regimes and pump in some aid.

No - GOP doesn't get to campaign against "Venezuelan socialism" in Texas and Florida and then bus out the refugees.  That's beyond cynical and hypocritical.

DC and NYC take plenty of refugees, is that really a question?

The rhetoric around "sanctuary cities" is a lot of heat, little light.  What actually is being referred to are policies where cities and states have to make hard choices between helping ICE enforce federal laws and the effectiveness of local law enforcement.  In a community with large number of undocumented aliens, it is a very serious safety problem if people won't report serious crimes or risks to public safety, wont get licenses to drive, wont enroll kids in school etc. because they are afraid it will expose them to deportation.  It is a real conflict between federal and local needs and politicians do a great disservice when they turn the issue into a political football

[Admiral Yi]

My understanding of sanctuary city is that local police don't assist ICE in rounding up and deporting illegal immigrants.

[Valmy]

My understanding of sanctuary city is that local police don't assist ICE in rounding up and deporting illegal immigrants.

Correct. Though it is not unusual at all in US history for local cops to not enforce federal laws. Prohibition, fugitive slave laws, federal drug laws...

Often they just leave that stuff up to the Feds.

[grumbler]

The societies that succeed in the 21st century will be the ones that are able to attract increasingly scarce labor.

Similar to the 17th and 18th centuries. We did well then: should we revisit those tactics?

I'm not sure who the "we" is that you belong to, but countries like England and the Netherlands did, indeed, prosper greatly by attracting scarce labor like the French Huguenots.  The American colonies attracted scarce labor from many countries.  In the 19th Century, so did South America, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

[OttoVonBismarck]

My understanding of sanctuary city is that local police don't assist ICE in rounding up and deporting illegal immigrants.

The term sanctuary city is political more than legal. It describes a range of policies in which local governments decline to work with Federal immigration officials.

The specifics do actually vary quite a bit from one jurisdiction to the next.

At the end of the day it's not dissimilar from States that have legalized weed. There is zero obligation at law for a State to enforce Federal criminal law. There is generally cooperation between agencies where States and localities will arrest someone on a Federal warrant or on suspicion of most Federal crimes--and this is also because there's mutual interest there. Few states for example have any interest in not seeing a Federal fugitive arrested or a counterfeiter arrested.

But not all Federal law is so uncontroversial.

The most common intersection between Federal law enforcement and "sanctuary cities", is the Feds become aware that a person has been arrested on local charges, usually some misdemeanor, and that that person is here illegally. In a non-sanctuary city, it is customary if the Feds request the local jail coordinates with the Feds to turn that person over to the immigration system (i.e. ICE for apprehension / processing in immigration courts), the local jail complies. In a sanctuary city, they just don't. That means they don't share information and don't do prisoner transfers. In practice it means they release them onto the streets without telling the Feds when they are doing so.

Note that in some cities ICE agents have apprehended many of these people almost instantly because they just wait outside the local jail to arrest people as they come out. They can't do that everyone, but that is done at some high volume locations.

Note that this also has 0 to do with the people Abbott and DeSantis are shipping around. The people the DumbState guys are shipping around are not arrestable by Federal immigration authorities--they are in fact being released by them.

[Berkut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqNBnKRW0TY

Governors of Texas and Arizona busing thousands of illegal immigrants to NYC and DC.

Now they're sending them from Florida to Martha's Vineyard and Kamala's home.

So there's kind of a point here.  Texas receives thousands of illegal immigrants per day.  Cities like NYC and DC proudly announce themselves as "Sanctuary Cities" that welcome illegal immigrants (although they use the term "undocumented").  Seems like a perfect match then - send these people from a state that is struggling to cope with the numbers of people to cities and states that proclaim to welcome them with open arms.

Where it falls down though is from what I can tell these migrants are being lied to to get on those buses - they're being told all kinds of services will be available once they arrive, when in fact they're just getting pushed out the bus door and dumped on the sidewalk.  That takes away any moral high ground Governor Abbott would have otherwise had.


But still the point is: it's easy to proclaim yourself open to undocumented migrants when you don't actually receive very many.  I've made this same complaint about Canada several times.  It says a lot that NYC and DC and loudly complaining about receiving a few bussfulls of migrants when Texas receives almost that many on a daily basis.

This is fucking grotesque in its straight up racism and utterly false bullshit.

THey are not illegal immigrants. NYC and DC both have massive immigrant populations. Neither of them are "loudly complaining".  They are saying "Hey, maybe you could let us know ahead of time so we can actually make some plans to take care of these people you are using as GOP mouthbreather stroke toys". Texas is not "struggling to cope", they are dealing with a problem that has been ongoing for decades, and they have massive resources dedicated to dealing with that problem from both the state AND the federal government.

Stop watching Fox News. My god.

[The Minsky Moment]

It's using human beings as props for political stunts. It requires a special kind of depravity.

Can we at least have general agreement that any politician engaging in or supporting this is no longer permitted to prattle on about "Christian values"?

[Admiral Yi]

Note that this also has 0 to do with the people Abbott and DeSantis are shipping around. The people the DumbState guys are shipping around are not arrestable by Federal immigration authorities--they are in fact being released by them.

Ya know, I got this the first time you said it.

To clarify, under US statute an illegal more than 200 miles from the border can be deported for a *misdemeanor?*

[The Brain]

The American colonies attracted scarce labor from many countries.

Er yeah, about that...

[The Brain]

It's using human beings as props for political stunts. It requires a special kind of depravity.

Can we at least have general agreement that any politician engaging in or supporting this is no longer permitted to prattle on about "Christian values"?

I dunno. Christian values are kind of weird.

[The Larch]

Apparently the group of inmigrants sent to Martha's Vineyard from Texas were lured into the plane (paid for by Florida) by being offered food outside a shelter and being told that they would be taken to Boston for processing of their residence papers. Texan authorities deny being part of this particular arrangement.

On the official statement to the media from DeSantis he rambles about how liberal states like New York, California and Massachussets are promoting illegal inmigration, so they should take care of the inmigrants, but apparently never told Mass. authorities that they were sending the plane. Mass., btw, has a Republican governor.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Note that this also has 0 to do with the people Abbott and DeSantis are shipping around. The people the DumbState guys are shipping around are not arrestable by Federal immigration authorities--they are in fact being released by them.

Ya know, I got this the first time you said it.

To clarify, under US statute an illegal more than 200 miles from the border can be deported for a *misdemeanor?*

I am possibly confused as to your question.

Under U.S. law a person present in the United States illegally, can be deported at any time. They are not required to have committed a specific non-immigration related misdemeanor. They are also not required to have "entered" illegally, for example a person on a valid visa enters illegally, but if they stay past the visa expiration date they are now in the country illegally and subject to deportation.

The people being shipped by these buses are not present in the United States illegally, they are here legally, so none of the above applies to them. They are quite literally not illegal immigrants. They are asylum seekers legally present in the United States.

Under U.S. law, you can seek asylum as long as you are physically present in the United States. The nature of how your physical presence occurred, is not relevant to the asylum process. Your immigration status is also not relevant. Once you have applied for asylum, you are allowed to remain in the country regardless of immigration status on a form I-589. This form is with USCIS and while it is pending the asylum process, there is nothing whatsoever illegal about your presence in the United States. In fact, it is allowed as a matter of legal right. If USCIS decides your asylum claim is not merited for the form I-589, you are immediately referred to the immigration court system under form I-862 if you do not have a valid mechanism for legally staying in the United States (i.e. you are not on a visa or permanent residency card.) The form I-862 process is synonymous with the concept of a "Notice to Appear", it means that USCIS has not decided to approve your asylum claim and your claim now has to be heard by an immigration judge who will do a de novo analysis of the case and make a determination as to whether or not you should be granted asylum. You are entirely legal to remain in the United States pending the I-589 or I-862 processes.

[grumbler]

The American colonies attracted scarce labor from many countries.

Er yeah, about that...

Er, yeah, you seemed to have drifted off before finishing your thought.