Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Zoupa]

You could have said the same about Russia or cccp before feb24.

[OttoVonBismarck]

It doesn't matter too much? Who are they competing against - Iran, Saudi, Venezuela, the Gulf monarchies?

I can't think of a time since the 73 embargo that SA and the Gulf have been unreliable suppliers.

The Persian Gulf had supply disruptions during the Iran-Iraq War and Persian Gulf Wars.

[Admiral Yi]

You could have said the same about Russia or cccp before feb24.

I recall a number of times when Russia fucked with gas supply to the Baltics and/or Ukraine before that.

[Zanza]

Apparently this is the oil leak that stops the entire pipeline. 

[Valmy]

I am hoping that is a big bright side out of all this shit.
Short term pain with gas bills for Europe, massive pain with war for Ukraine, but in the long term better for all with the clean transition sped up significantly

Yeah I feel very guilty about feeling this way but I find the whole thing kind of exciting. Europe is going to have rapidly modernize its energy sources! Think of all the innovation and development we are going to see in such a short period of time! And Putin will be fucked!

But...there is going to be a lot of sort term pain and maybe even people freezing to death. Economic damage and personal suffering.

So I am really interested in how this shakes out and no doubt Europe will emerge a stronger force for it. And perhaps a world leader in post-fossil fuels energy markets. But...yeah sorry for all the suffering the common people are going to experience this winter. Hope everybody is able to keep the heaters on.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I am hoping that is a big bright side out of all this shit.
Short term pain with gas bills for Europe, massive pain with war for Ukraine, but in the long term better for all with the clean transition sped up significantly

Yeah I feel very guilty about feeling this way but I find the whole thing kind of exciting. Europe is going to have rapidly modernize its energy sources! Think of all the innovation and development we are going to see in such a short period of time! And Putin will be fucked!

But...there is going to be a lot of sort term pain and maybe even people freezing to death. Economic damage and personal suffering.

So I am really interested in how this shakes out and no doubt Europe will emerge a stronger force for it. And perhaps a world leader in post-fossil fuels energy markets. But...yeah sorry for all the suffering the common people are going to experience this winter. Hope everybody is able to keep the heaters on.

LOL, what sciencefiction is that. It's  Europe we're talking about.

edit:
https://www.tijd.be/opinie/commentaar/europa-red-de-industrie/10411293.html
translated with google chrome.

Exceptional times require exceptional measures. Day after day, European industry is coming to a standstill due to unaffordable energy. The dominoes fall quickly. Previously unthinkable European economic emergency measures are necessary.

If you want to get an idea of ��what the European industry is going through, you should read the interview with the European CEO of the steel giant ArcelorMittal. On Thursday he announced the closure of a blast furnace in Spain, Friday morning he shut down factories in Bremen and a brand new one in Hamburg. Dunkirk followed a few hours later. "And this will continue next week."

Energy-intensive manufacturing companies that produced very profitably until a few months ago are closing their doors because they can no longer continue to operate at a loss. The aluminum industry is almost completely at a standstill, as is fertilizer. A glass producer must immediately put newly produced glass back in the kiln, otherwise irreparable damage is imminent. That can't take long. Cardboard, zinc and steel production has already been drastically reduced. Steel is now being imported on a large scale from outside Europe.

Moreover, the production companies are increasingly faced with declining demand. Inflation fueled by energy and recession, the dreaded deadly trio. In a few weeks we will be in a very, very precarious situation for the entire European industry.

There are no simple recipes to combat stagflation (inflation and recession at the same time). Yet Europe urgently needs to do more than it has already done. In a state of emergency, options that were economic nonsense until the war also become plausible. All eyes are on the energy summit next Friday and the State of the Union address of EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen on 14 September.

Options include the decoupling of electricity prices from the gas price and a European cap, in whole or in part, for the latter. Defining the excess profits in a European way and mitigating energy bills with levies is another option. And mandatory energy consumption reduction per Member State.

Each of those recipes has unwanted side effects. Economists rightly point out that such a gas price ceiling can cap prices for a while, but that Europe is in danger of running out of gas. The producers will sell it elsewhere on the world market. But the more European energy prices rise above world prices, as they have over the past two weeks, the more such a temporary ceiling may be able to dampen something.

If American industrial companies can buy energy at a tenth of what their European competitors have to pay, the damage is incalculable. The sense of urgency in all Member States is there to do something, but the European giant on clay feet is groaning under its decision-making process. It is difficult with 27 Member States to decide on controversial measures that are not the ultimate solution. The budgetary situation is also complex. But necessity breaks law.

The state of emergency in our industry is much less important to politicians and public opinion than the high bills of the citizens. And it goes even beyond indifference. Although it is usually not said out loud, some politicians and the European civil service do not think it a bad thing that our industry is being decimated. It would be a good thing for the climate, the environment and for a switch to an even more service economy.

It would be a catastrophic mistake to abandon the industry in this perfect storm. For employment and everything related to industry. If we let industry go, the old continent will become even more dependent on other regions for a whole host of essential products. If you want to know where that leads, just look at where Europe's dependence on Russian gas has brought us.

Things may get a lot worse before they get better, if they ever get better given that a part of the EU mandarins are actively working against the European people.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Apparently this is the oil leak that stops the entire pipeline. 

Oh shit, not E3119 and E3100! 
At least SPARB is okay.

[Tamas]

This is trolling on the level of the Salisbury killers appearing on Russian TV explaining they just made the 24 hours there-and-back journey to check out the famous cathedral.

[DGuller]

Is there a term for this in-your-face mocking trolling?  It's probably not "gaslighting", but clearly the objective is to mock and flaunt your absolute power rather than fool.

[Valmy]

Things may get a lot worse before they get better, if they ever get better given that a part of the EU mandarins are actively working against the European people.

Ok that doesn't make any sense. The climate is not going to be helped because things are built in another part of the planet, probably to less rigorous environmental standards 

Hey I can dream difficult times will bring people together in a burst of innovation.

[Sheilbh]

Is there a term for this in-your-face mocking trolling?  It's probably not "gaslighting", but clearly the objective is to mock and flaunt your absolute power rather than fool.

It seems like all Russian comms to me. As you say I don't think it's to convince anyone, I think it's to display internally that they don't gie a fuck. It's trolling of some sort but I'm not sure if it's the name.

The exemplar for me is always Borrell in Moscow when he was visiting in the context of the EU looking at the Sputnik vaccine. Lavrov did his usual boorish humiliate a foreign dignitary act and during the press conference Russia expelled I think twenty something EU diplomats for espionage.

I think it's even less about showing off Russia's power than showing off that the other side can't/won't do anything. Other foreign ministers won't get into a verbal slinging match even if they are robust in their message, there's nothing Europe can do about NS1 etc.

Edit: Strikes me it is a Trump tactic too.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Things may get a lot worse before they get better, if they ever get better given that a part of the EU mandarins are actively working against the European people.

Ok that doesn't make any sense. The climate is not going to be helped because things are built in another part of the planet, probably to less rigorous environmental standards 

Hey I can dream difficult times will bring people together in a burst of innovation.

It makes perfect sense if you know that "ecologists" are ideological melons: green on the outside, red on the inside and brown if you don't clean up fast enough (mileage may very depending on country but it seems to hold up quite well if you look at the policies they support).

[Zanza]

Is there some obvious measure the EU or national politicians could take to help energy intensive industries? 

[Zoupa]

Crazy_Ivan think we should cave in to Crazy Ivan, because the EU is the root of all evil in Flanders or something.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Crazy_Ivan think we should cave in to Crazy Ivan, because the EU is the root of all evil in Flanders or something.

  you clearly haven't been following my posts regarding what our stance should towards putler.
So the joke is on you.