Finland, Sweden + NATO

[The Brain]

Sounds like manufactured outrage by political opponents. I don't think anyone thinks that politicians enjoying a party is a bad thing.

[Malthus]

I think footage of a Finn enjoying a social situation is definitely news and, no doubt, rather damaging. A bit like if someone had candid footage of Pedro Sanchez eating dinner a 5.30

A Finn not acting depressed? That damages the national stereotype and cannot be allowed! 

[Solmyr]

As mentioned, this is mostly shocking to conservative boomers (and others with such mindset). And even the drug allegations originated from a troll website (Ylilauta, the Finnish version of 4chan), and the mainstream media stupidly picked it up. So it only ended up damaging the image of the media. Also, the Polish PM has defended Marin's right to party, saying that she should be happy because her country is joining NATO. 

[Richard Hakluyt]

I think footage of a Finn enjoying a social situation is definitely news and, no doubt, rather damaging. A bit like if someone had candid footage of Pedro Sanchez eating dinner a 5.30

A Finn not acting depressed? That damages the national stereotype and cannot be allowed! 

We will know it is the end times when a video of the Italian president putting pineapple om a pizza is leaked.

[Legbiter]

Sounds like manufactured outrage by political opponents. I don't think anyone thinks that politicians enjoying a party is a bad thing.

Finnish political scandals are very strange. She only got her job due to her predecessor resigning because of some kerfuffle over a....post office strike.

[Solmyr]

Finnish political scandal of the week: our PM was given marshmallows by another person.

https://twitter.com/geshtin_karanu/status/1567218972965085184?t=AM8i59WDIqN9ZYYZa0UnBQ&s=19

[The Brain]

Who is likely to be the next PM?

[HVC]

Were their scandals always this dumb, or is this because they have a female PM now?

[Solmyr]

Who is likely to be the next PM?

The National Coalition Party (counterpart to Swedish Moderaterna) is currently leading the polls. Elections are next spring so we'll see if they can keep the lead.

[Solmyr]

Were their scandals always this dumb, or is this because they have a female PM now?

The latter (and she's also leftist). Our female PM gets criticized by right-wing conservatives for basically just existing.

[Valmy]

Having a female leader is bad enough, but a young one who never went uphill both ways in the snow to school? Who grew up coddled in the decadent leftist west? Who never once was savagely beaten by her parents until she behaved herself? Teh horrah!

Of course being Finnish she probably skied up hill both ways in the snow to school.

[Tamas]

Yeah its ridiculous just how much more shit women have to put up with.

For example, I have acquired a list of macro economics/stock market kind of people to follow on Twitter over the last year or so. And I noticed that the one female among them gets more savage comments than any of the men. Like, the guys also get their share of snark comments and whatnot, but pure hostility I have only seen in replies to this one gal, and it is entirely unwarranted.

[The Brain]

At this point I think that Sweden should withdraw its NATO application. Tell NATO that we're here when they have figured their shit out, but for now enough is enough. It's obvious that NATO doesn't want Sweden to join right now, and desperately sucking up to Turkey is not a great look. The government's inept handling of things also hurts Sweden as a society, since they want to curb private expression of opinion in Sweden to placate Turkey.

Also, even if increased US pressure on Turkey possibly may bring about some improvement in NATO's position, the dominant power of the alliance leaning on a member to support the interest of a non-member is not a great look. More ominously it would mean that every member's veto isn't actually considered important by the US, which would make NATO more risky to join.

The critical thing is that Finland joins. Not Sweden. I understand that the Finns worry that if Sweden isn't in NATO a future nutjob Swedish government may not only not help Finland, but actually stop NATO from using Swedish airspace and territory, damaging the prospects of Finland stopping the Russians near the border (in a few decades it's theoretically possible that the Russian military has improved, so this has to be planned for). But I still think that Finland is safer in NATO, even in a situation where Sweden is not in NATO.

[Tonitrus]

Almost seems like it would be easier to start a new treaty organization, exclude Turkey/Hungary, and then leave NATO.

Just throw together a quick little summit, sign some mutual defense treaties and call it a day.

Lose the geographic restrictions at the same time and get Japan, Australia, and the rest in too.

 

[Threviel]

Yeah, the geography thing was a way for the US to not get tangled up in colonial wars, that ship has sailed by now.

Make it a requirement to be a democratic state ruled by law so that no new Hungary's can come from the inside.

Long term get Japan, Korea, Republic of China and perhaps even India into the alliance, makes China practically untouchable by the commies.