Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[DGuller]

That seems so absolutely ridiculous.

One would think that in this day and age, the problem governments have is that they cannot ever really conceal what is happening, at least not in a large scale war.

You don't have to conceal, you can just drown people in bullshit.  If you can't conceal your heat signature, shoot a dozen flares instead.  Apart from that, we've also learned (or rather fully grasped) that facts presented selectively, intentionally or just due to the nature of things, can misinform more than inform.  I think the idea that the Internet would inform the world has been dead for at least a decade by now.

[Josquius]

Arestovych, who seems to be de facto second in command in Ukraine, gloated a couple of days ago that Severodonetsk was a trap for Russians.  Supposedly Ukrainians evacuated the city and lured the Russians in, so that they could be pummeled by artillery from the high ground surrounding the city, and also be forced to fight costly urban battles.

Goes quite counter to what I heard elsewhere. That the Ukrainians had to retreat from there taking great losses and losing a lot of heavy equipment.

Saying that is a good way to get the Russians paranoid about their attack I suppose.

[Berkut]

That seems so absolutely ridiculous.

One would think that in this day and age, the problem governments have is that they cannot ever really conceal what is happening, at least not in a large scale war.

You don't have to conceal, you can just drown people in bullshit.  If you can't conceal your heat signature, shoot a dozen flares instead.  Apart from that, we've also learned (or rather fully grasped) that facts presented selectively, intentionally or just due to the nature of things, can misinform more than inform.  I think the idea that the Internet would inform the world has been dead for at least a decade by now.

I was talking more about the prevalence of satellite imagery and drones to collect information.

[DGuller]

Latest news I'm seeing is that Ukrainians have retaken most of Severodonetsk, supposedly after inflicting heavy losses on the Russians inside.  I think this lays credence to the claim that it was a trap.  Ukrainians in general seem to bluff very sparingly with their claims, unlike the Russians who kill every famous fighter on Ukrainians side at least three times.

[DGuller]

That seems so absolutely ridiculous.

One would think that in this day and age, the problem governments have is that they cannot ever really conceal what is happening, at least not in a large scale war.

You don't have to conceal, you can just drown people in bullshit.  If you can't conceal your heat signature, shoot a dozen flares instead.  Apart from that, we've also learned (or rather fully grasped) that facts presented selectively, intentionally or just due to the nature of things, can misinform more than inform.  I think the idea that the Internet would inform the world has been dead for at least a decade by now.

I was talking more about the prevalence of satellite imagery and drones to collect information.

I see.  I think that in this case, there is no neutral party with the capability and the desire to both collect and disseminate information collected with satellites or drones.  The Western powers are probably observing very closely, but they aren't going to release information that Ukraine doesn't want released, and Ukraine isn't going to endanger itself for the sake of us being objectively informed.

[celedhring]

Zelensky visited the Donbass yesterday, reportedly pretty damn close to the front line (Lysychansk). Seems a bit reckless - and I guess it also points to how the Russians are pretty blind in this whole thing, if  he was able to do it unmolested - but gotta be good for those troops' morale. Certainly can't see Vlad doing it.

[Solmyr]

Zelensky was in Kyiv while it was being shelled, a few kilometers from the Russian forces, so it's not new to him.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah footage of him giving awards here - as it says, remarkable:
https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1533619320093388800?s=21&t=iteM__sIvhZS1pIOuFp3ig

[Sheilbh]

UK sending MLRS and munitions to Ukraine - apparently this was closely coordinated with the US sending HIMARS. Both appear to have been conditional on some form of guarantee from Ukraine that they will not be used against targets in Russian territory.

I think it's probably the right decision.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSPhOWDkcPk&ab_channel=Perun

nice rundown of the effort Poland has made so far.

[Legbiter]

Ukrainians notched up another Russian general yesterday.

[Legbiter]

UK sending MLRS and munitions to Ukraine - apparently this was closely coordinated with the US sending HIMARS. Both appear to have been conditional on some form of guarantee from Ukraine that they will not be used against targets in Russian territory.

I think it's probably the right decision.

Yeah. Hope they get enough of them to outrange and outgun the Russians.

[mongers]

The odds are towards Xmas I'll probably have to adjust the thread title to " + 2022-23 Invasion " ?

[Barrister]

The odds are towards Xmas I'll probably have to adjust the thread title to " + 2022-23 Invasion " ?

Honestly you should just change it to Russo-Ukrainian war 2014-2020.  The war never stopped, it just slowed down in the middle.

[Josquius]

The evening standard keeps popping up when I search for Ukraine news and they're permanent optimists on things going well for Ukraine...
But they do report in a article today I note that Russia is apparently running out of artillery ammo.
A bit easier to replace than smart weapons one would think but its a wonder. In Russia anyrhing is possible.