The Off Topic Topic

[Josquius]

It's often forgotten just how British Dublin was. Right up till the end it was still electing unionists in some seats.

Hence 'beyond the Pale' , a phrase I feel should have been deemed un-PC and retired a long time ago.

I looked into that not too long ago. Apparently Irish people are generally not bothered since its original etymology is so disconnected. We've probably a fair few phrases like so.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I don't think beyond the pale is perceived as offensive - you'll sometimes see the Irish equivalent of Jos in, say, County Cork complaining about the government spending too much on "the Pale" by which they mean sort of what the "South-East" does in England. Dublin, bits of Meath etc.

I'm not sure it's that surprising that the imperial capital of a colonised country has more of the empire in it - and if it's been the centre of administration for 800 years even moreso.

[Jacob]

I looked into that not too long ago. Apparently Irish people are generally not bothered since its original etymology is so disconnected. We've probably a fair few phrases like so.

When I've come across folks who've deemed "beyond the pale" sufficiently problematic to be avoided it's always been with reference to anti-Semitism and the Pale of Settlement in the Russian Empire, not the English Pale in Ireland.

[Sheilbh]

When I've come across folks who've deemed "beyond the pale" sufficiently problematic to be avoided it's always been with reference to anti-Semitism and the Pale of Settlement in the Russian Empire, not the English Pale in Ireland.

But in terms of the Pale of Settlement - isn't "beyond the pale" from the Jewish perspective? Same way as it's from the English perspective? The pale is safe and acceptable, beyond it monstrous and dangerous.

[Duque de Bragança]

What's next? Beyond the pale of Calais? 

[celedhring]

Two small Catalan publishers have created a label of "atemporal classics of environmentalist, feminist literature, with a commitment to justice and equality".

First book published is "Dune" 

I mean, it's nice to finally have a Catalan edition of Dune (surprised it took that long). But I'm not sure that is what they are going for...

[The Larch]

Two small Catalan publishers have created a label of "atemporal classics of environmentalist, feminist literature, with a commitment to justice and equality".

First book published is "Dune" 

I mean, it's nice to finally have a Catalan edition of Dune (surprised it took that long). But I'm not sure that is what they are going for...

Well, at least it covers the environmental part... 

[Barrister]

Two small Catalan publishers have created a label of "atemporal classics of environmentalist, feminist literature, with a commitment to justice and equality".

First book published is "Dune" 

I mean, it's nice to finally have a Catalan edition of Dune (surprised it took that long). But I'm not sure that is what they are going for...

Well, at least it covers the environmental part... 

Bene Gesserit count as feminists?

Justice and equality leave me at a loss though.

[celedhring]

Two small Catalan publishers have created a label of "atemporal classics of environmentalist, feminist literature, with a commitment to justice and equality".

First book published is "Dune" 

I mean, it's nice to finally have a Catalan edition of Dune (surprised it took that long). But I'm not sure that is what they are going for...

Well, at least it covers the environmental part... 

Bene Gesserit count as feminists?

Justice and equality leave me at a loss though.

The book does feature some prominent female characters, which is nice. But in the end, nearly every woman in the book is there to marry or give birth to someone more important. I mean, the final paragraph is this:

"Think on it, Chani: the princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine - never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine - history will call us wives"

[The Brain]

Dune is a male fantasy of power. "Women are mysterious, almost unknowable, and possess great powers. But I, the super special male, is better than them at their own game. My special powers let me dominate everyone, not only those mysterious women but also my male competitors."

[Barrister]

Dune is a male fantasy of power. "Women are mysterious, almost unknowable, and possess great powers. But I, the super special male, is better than them at their own game. My special powers let me dominate everyone, not only those mysterious women but also my male competitors."

Fair comment.

But just in particular for its era, you'd hardly find any strong female characters at all.

But mostly I think this is just "Catalans be crazy".

[Sheilbh]

Fair comment.

But just in particular for its era, you'd hardly find any strong female characters at all.

I think genre is probably more of a problem there. It was published in 1965 - there's plenty of books and films and other bits of the culture with strong female characters in the mid-60s.

[Barrister]

Fair comment.

But just in particular for its era, you'd hardly find any strong female characters at all.

I think genre is probably more of a problem there. It was published in 1965 - there's plenty of books and films and other bits of the culture with strong female characters in the mid-60s.

Yeah - I was thinking of sci-fi.

[celedhring]

One of the publishers involved does great work translating sci-fi/fantasy stuff in Catalan - which was a big hole in what's available in the language. I think they just went a bit out on a limb with the branding 

[Josquius]

Pulp Sci fi and even more thought out stuff like dune has a problem in that it tends not to have much in the way of characters at all. They're very much plot and concept driven pieces.