Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Grey Fox]

47 years ago, Canada move to metric.

Some stuff are still labeled as sold in imperial. Mostly fresh meat.

[Sheilbh]

So the North is less civilised.

Like the BBC archive bit that did the rounds over the weekend:
https://twitter.com/StefSimanowitz/status/1530458294313172992

I can't recall ever seeing an imperial measurement around these parts.

Yeah same to be honest - maybe market stalls have both. But then I can't think of any grocers I've been in recently and they're not something you see very much. But I can't think of any time I've seen/bought something in imperial outside of a pub or milk.

[Sheilbh]

Rumour doing the rounds that we've hit the number of letters of no confidence from Tory MPs to trigger a vote of no confidence but it won't be announced until after the recess (for the long jubilee weekend).

There were similar rumours last time because the chair of the 1922 Committee who gets these letters phones around all who have submitted one and checks if that's still their view or if they want to withdraw it. At least he did last time under May and that's when the rumours came out because he himself is always very quiet and very good at keeping them confidential.

Obviously lots of caveats - only Sir Graham Brady knows how many letters have been submitted - but that's apparently what people are saying. Also worth noting that this time it seems like the rebels have some organisation/planning which they didn't in January. I suppose that while the Met investigation basically paused the risk of a vote of no confidence and bought Johnson some time, it also gave some time for the dissatisfied to organise.

[mongers]

So the North is less civilised.

Like the BBC archive bit that did the rounds over the weekend:
https://twitter.com/StefSimanowitz/status/1530458294313172992

I can't recall ever seeing an imperial measurement around these parts.

Yeah same to be honest - maybe market stalls have both. But then I can't think of any grocers I've been in recently and they're not something you see very much. But I can't think of any time I've seen/bought something in imperial outside of a pub or milk.

You'll probably have bough cloth/material from a market stall sold in the old fashion/Imperial 'finger to nose'* measurement.


* a yard + measurement.

[Josquius]

Rumour doing the rounds that we've hit the number of letters of no confidence from Tory MPs to trigger a vote of no confidence but it won't be announced until after the recess (for the long jubilee weekend).

There were similar rumours last time because the chair of the 1922 Committee who gets these letters phones around all who have submitted one and checks if that's still their view or if they want to withdraw it. At least he did last time under May and that's when the rumours came out because he himself is always very quiet and very good at keeping them confidential.

Obviously lots of caveats - only Sir Graham Brady knows how many letters have been submitted - but that's apparently what people are saying. Also worth noting that this time it seems like the rebels have some organisation/planning which they didn't in January. I suppose that while the Met investigation basically paused the risk of a vote of no confidence and bought Johnson some time, it also gave some time for the dissatisfied to organise.

So another year of Johnson guaranteed it seems.

Like the BBC archive bit that did the rounds over the weekend:
https://twitter.com/StefSimanowitz/status/1530458294313172992

Fascinating how this rhymes with current worries in the media about kebab shops taking over.

Off topic but its a strange thing in media portrayals of the  past that the commonness of headscarves until pretty recent times tends not to be represented. My nana and friends always wore them right into the 90s.

[Sheilbh]

MSo another year of Johnson guaranteed it seems.

I think it took about 5-6 months from the Tory vote of no confidence in May to her resigning. I don't think there's much chance of Johnson losing the vote but it's how badly he wins - especially if it, finally, causes the cabinet to move.

Off topic but its a strange thing in media portrayals of the  past that the commonness of headscarves until pretty recent times tends not to be represented. My nana and friends always wore them right into the 90s.

I was thinking just that. When did people stop wearing headscarves and when did old women stop having their hair done in curls because it was definitely a thing with the matriarchs in my family when I was growing up, but I almost never see it now.

[Gups]

So the North is less civilised.

Like the BBC archive bit that did the rounds over the weekend:
https://twitter.com/StefSimanowitz/status/1530458294313172992

I can't recall ever seeing an imperial measurement around these parts.

Yeah same to be honest - maybe market stalls have both. But then I can't think of any grocers I've been in recently and they're not something you see very much. But I can't think of any time I've seen/bought something in imperial outside of a pub or milk.

I still see packs of things labelled as weighing 454 grams but less frequently than a few years ago (ironically) with 500g more common. Sounds like an opportunity for a bit of shrinkflation from retailers.

[Barrister]

47 years ago, Canada move to metric.

Some stuff are still labeled as sold in imperial. Mostly fresh meat.

I don't think that's right.  Everything is labeled in metric.

Now what's curious is lots of items are sold in sizes that betray their former imperial past: 4L of milk because you used to buy gallons, 355ml soda cans because you used to buy 12 ounce cans, ground meat comes in roughly 400-500g quantities because that's roughly one pound, that kind of thing.

But I've never seen anything only labelled in imperial.

[Sheilbh]

I see Simon Jenkins is at it again

Edit: Hard to disagree

Jonn Elledge
@JonnElledge
Replying to
@rcolvile
What I find fascinating is its genuinely impossible to work out who he's for. He reflects no political position, no ideology beyond a steadfast commitment to wrongness.

[Grey Fox]

47 years ago, Canada move to metric.

Some stuff are still labeled as sold in imperial. Mostly fresh meat.

I don't think that's right.  Everything is labeled in metric.

Now what's curious is lots of items are sold in sizes that betray their former imperial past: 4L of milk because you used to buy gallons, 355ml soda cans because you used to buy 12 ounce cans, ground meat comes in roughly 400-500g quantities because that's roughly one pound, that kind of thing.

But I've never seen anything only labelled in imperial.

I guess it's not conveying what I thought.

Around here, while stuff is actually sold in metric, the price labels on shelves (as opposed to the products themselves) will also have a imperial quantity. See the fruits & meat in this example :

[Sheilbh]

Latest letter of no confidence that been made public is from Andrea Leadsom which feels like the most significant so far - she's former cabinet minister and leadership contender and very much on the right of the party. Key line at the end: "There have been unacceptable failings of leadership that cannot be tolerated and are the responsibility of PM. My colleagues and I must now decide on what is right course of action that will restore confidence in our government."

As Pippa Crerar noted this also exposes the issue Johnson has politically that there are no Johnsonites. He doesn't really have a faction within the Tory party and is a bit of a loner. That means he has always basically swung between different groups (the right, Brexiteers, one nation Tories, the 2019 intake etc) depending on his needs at the time. Which is fine when you're doing well and win a big majority and have lots of political capital - but it's a weakness and means you're pretty exposed when things are difficult.

Interesting from journalists on the left saying they think the best time to strike would actually be after the by elections in three weeks which the Tories are likely to lose. That, in their view, is when Johnson would be most vulnerable but it's not clear if the Tory rebels are organised enough to really manage that.

Meanwhile there are more stories about parties still leaking - especially ones that are out of scope of Gray's report and also reports that Johnson's team tried to pressure Gray to change the report and now some reports about Johnson and Chequers. So the idea from his supporters that everyone will move on is, as ever, just an utter delusion. What's really striking is that lots of these stories are coming from more "access journalists" maybe - which suggests there's lots of briefing against Johnson by the people around him. Again it may not have been a great idea in the long run to throw your entire team under the bus

On the Gray report apparently she didn't really change much if any of it. She is a civil servant and not independent so the Number 10 team are her boss - but she apparently told them that she would only make changes to the report if she received a formal written instruction. Then the people telling her to change the report said they would only instruct her if they received a formal written instruction which basically seemd to go all the way up. So in a very civil service way, that issue was managed by paperwork and creating a formal written record of who said what when.

[Josquius]

The 2019 bunch are 'Johnsonites' no?
They know their position is fairly tied to him and in terms of their overall politics they tend to employ the same poundshop Trump populist dead catty rhetoric.

[Sheilbh]

The 2019 bunch are 'Johnsonites' no?
They know their position is fairly tied to him and in terms of their overall politics they tend to employ the same poundshop Trump populist dead catty rhetoric.

Not really - there was a theory they might be more loyal to Johnson because he "won" their seats. But no MP likes to admit that their success depends on the leadership as opposed to their own campaigning skills and local knowledge. But also, almost by definition, their seats are marginal so they are most exposed to any shift in popularity and Johnson is now historically unpopular - only 25% of people want him to carry on as PM.

If you look at who has publicly called for Johnson to go I think the 2019 intake are second (only behind the 2010 intake, I think) and on votes they have been really unusually rebellious. I think the Red Wall bit of the intake has been more loyal so far (but that might change after the Wakefield by election).

Worth noting this might be a generational thing because the Labour 2019 intake are also unusually rebellious. I know there's a theory among older Tory MPs that in part it's because the 2019 intake almost immediately ended up in a Zoom parliament, so they weren't "socialised" properly. And I think there might be something to that - I think not having physical sessions in parliament probably did have an impact.

It might also be that there are people whose goal is broadly to be an MP. It used to be that junior MPs would do as they were told because they wanted to be a minister and only become serial rebels once it became clear that wasn't going to happen - there are more MPs now who seem to come into office with the intent of being rebellious.

[Josquius]

The 2019 bunch are 'Johnsonites' no?
They know their position is fairly tied to him and in terms of their overall politics they tend to employ the same poundshop Trump populist dead catty rhetoric.

Not really - there was a theory they might be more loyal to Johnson because he "won" their seats. But no MP likes to admit that their success depends on the leadership as opposed to their own campaigning skills and local knowledge. But also, almost by definition, their seats are marginal so they are most exposed to any shift in popularity and Johnson is now historically unpopular - only 25% of people want him to carry on as PM.

If you look at who has publicly called for Johnson to go I think the 2019 intake are second (only behind the 2010 intake, I think) and on votes they have been really unusually rebellious. I think the Red Wall bit of the intake has been more loyal so far (but that might change after the Wakefield by election).

Worth noting this might be a generational thing because the Labour 2019 intake are also unusually rebellious. I know there's a theory among older Tory MPs that in part it's because the 2019 intake almost immediately ended up in a Zoom parliament, so they weren't "socialised" properly. And I think there might be something to that - I think not having physical sessions in parliament probably did have an impact.

It might also be that there are people whose goal is broadly to be an MP. It used to be that junior MPs would do as they were told because they wanted to be a minister and only become serial rebels once it became clear that wasn't going to happen - there are more MPs now who seem to come into office with the intent of being rebellious.

Of course the central tenant of Johnsonism is being a dishonest backstabbing tit :p

Sounds good to me in theory that we are getting MPs happy to do their job as an mp. Of course in practice it is not so great.

[Sheilbh]

According to reporters we're at the stage of a leadership crisis where Johnson is calling round critics and the dissatisfied to hint at the possibility of promotion/appointing them as ministers and asking them to "stick with me". Of course the flipside of promoting his critics would be demoting his loyalists to create space which might make those calls a little double-edged.

Also as Jos says - who is going to believe in promises or hints made by Johnson?

Rumours saying to expect a vote of no confidence on Tuesday. It should favour Johnson given the large payroll vote - but it's a secret ballot so who knows. 180 is 50%+1 - but the expectation seems to be that he'd survive but possibly with lower support than May had. From a Labour perspective I think that would be the ideal situation electorally - he won't have the decency to resign, the public don't like him and the party's divided. But in 5D chess some are saying that if the expected result is a narrow win it might push people to vote against him because if it's got to a vote of no confidence they're better off removing him than letting him limp on to the next election.