Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Russian agent is likely over selling things. But I do think there's likely some link there. With Corbyn too. Someone who has his ear is in putins pocket. Or merely they've swallowed a lot of kremlin propeganda without being paid for it.

I think it's the latter. I genuinely think they're doing it pro bono because of their beliefs.

I'll never forgive them for turning on working people during brexit though. They really gave the impression of not having a clue about their industry and just being contrarian for shits and giggles.

In terms of getting wages and benefits for their workforce they are one of the most effective unions in the country. And like strands on the left, including Corbyn, they've been anti-EU since we entered the common market - they didn't do the 90s switcheroo of being pro-European moving from a right-wing to a left-wing thing.

Apparently the unions generally were a lot more divided over Brexit than more or less anyone but the Tory party. I've read that it came very close to the TUC taking a neutral stance - though in the end they supported it was tight over whether they would or not. It's why the union remain campaign tended to rely on a relatively limited number of people doing the campaigning, was because a lot of the more recognisable, militant union leaders were more or less pro-leave.

Edit: I also end up arguing with people about the RMT whenever there's a tube strike and friends of mine who are left/liberal and very anti-Tory complain about striking tube drivers and how they earn too much. It always slightly annoys because that's how unions and strikes work - if they didn't have an impact they wouldn't be effective.

And I also like them because I know some people on the universities pensions strike and they've had fairly regular support from RMT throughout which is good to see.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Essential workers that are also responsible for the safety of hundreds of people at a time. But they are working class and should therefore be paid bugger-all.

[Josquius]

Train drivers are fairly safe, but there is a valid angle to tube drivers being paid too much. Making the underground driverless isnt an impossibility and its just politics keeping it from being so. It really does strike me as a case of having a job that gradually pays shitter (via inflation) or a job that will cease to exist.
Applies equally in a lot of cases too of course, manufacturing for instance. But with the tube it seems a particularly dangerous minefield.

In my book the RMT are the most deplorable of unions. The '88 switch on Europe was for very sound reasons, and the RMT had nothing but lies to back up their case. So I'm quite torn on them here.

[Admiral Yi]

There's always a moan about how much Tube drivers earn etc and I think it's normally a great argument of the benefits of union membership. They get stuff for their members.

And the costs get born by the ridership.  What's not to like?

[garbon]

Am I being a bit much of a conspiracy nut to, between his past actions and current events, smell a whiff of vodka around the rmt boss?

BBC News - RMT boss says more UK workers should push for strikes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61607005

Maybe - I kind of love the RMT though

There's always a moan about how much Tube drivers earn etc and I think it's normally a great argument of the benefits of union membership. They get stuff for their members.

The RMT's always been militant in a more hard left way than a lot of the unions. Bob Crow used to be General Secretary, they disassociated from Labour after Iraq, they campaigned for Corbyn's leadership and supported leave in the referendum. My guess would be his position on Ukraine, NATO, Russia etc is basically the same as Corbyn's but as with him probably because those are just his politics rather than because he's a Russian agent.

I think RMT highlights why unions should be neutered.

[Sheilbh]

I think this country highlights why they shouldn't and what happens when you do

[Richard Hakluyt]

I think it depends to what extent the rich and established are taking the piss. Right now I'm feeling more radical than I have since 1983 

[Sheilbh]

Yeah - I think the ability for the rich and established to take the piss is directly linked to whether workers' have power through organised labour. But I have been radicalised in recent years

[The Larch]

Boris Johnson to reportedly bring back imperial measurements to mark platinum jubilee

Appropriate trip back in time.

[Tamas]

Boris Johnson to reportedly bring back imperial measurements to mark platinum jubilee

Appropriate trip back in time.

[Sheilbh]

Again it's a zombie announcement. I think it's about the fourth time this has been a story. Nothing has happened - except for a couple of days rage by continuity Remain on Twitter, which might be the point.

I mean at least Major had more than the Cones Hotline in his Citizen's Charter so didn't just keep regurgitating the same press releases

[Richard Hakluyt]

It never went away https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/59868823

It was more that a CE mark had to be displayed; it was always possible for the crown mark to still be displayed....not that anyone really gives a toss one way or the other.

Still, at least it shows that Johnson is into recycling.

[Sheilbh]

It never went away https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/59868823

It was more that a CE mark had to be displayed; it was always possible for the crown mark to still be displayed....not that anyone really gives a toss one way or the other

Yeah - David Allen Green did a good post on this because I think imperial measurements were part of Brexit but I don't think it was actually about the crown or the measurements.

It was the metric martyrs and the sense that it was disproportionate and somehow wrong that three market traders were prosecuted and given criminal convictions because they were selling veg in pounds and ounces. I think that tapped into a sense of impotence about Europe/European law and also how the British government operationalised those laws. Both the EU and UK pulled back from strict enforcement of measures to a more nuanced position that allowed the display of other measurements as well as metric. But the story and the myth had already had their effect and you'd hear about metric martyrs for years.

It's another one of those things that I think shows the importance of narrative and story in how we understand the world which always outweigh facts or stats that are just presented without an interpretation.

Still, at least it shows that Johnson is into recycling.

Grammar schools too - I think it's the fourth time they've made that announcement. Of course grammar schools are a particularly popular cause for Sir Graham Brady who chairs the 1922 Committee, but I'm sure it's got nothing to do with that

Separately - and linked to the Economist piece on US terms in British politics - lots of people enjoying dunking on the NYT (always a fun day - it happens about once a month) reporting on Britain for this:

The New York Times
@nytimes
Out of power for 12 years, Britain's Labour Party has made some gains. But its message hasn't won back the rust belt regions that abandoned it in the last election.

I think they're picking on the wrong thing. I've heard British writers and papers use the "rust belt" about bits of the UK - it's gone out of fashion now because we use "red wall" (but that itself is just stolen from Clinton and Biden's "blue walls" ).

But I still think it'd be worth moaning because it feels like it's interpreting through the US/Trump - which is always my complaint with the NYT. This feels very informed by the NYT's tour of every diner in Trump supporting counties discovering that they still support Trump. In the UK the polls indicate that Labour absolutely will win back those seats and the 10,000 person YouGov MRP had the Tories losing 85 of 88 battleground seats (including red wall seats).

Labour could be doing better. There may be a deeper shift going on of some areas staying Tory that demographically should vote Tory (older, more home-owners/economic security), but until 2017-19 they didn't because of historical Labour support. That might survive but the counterpart of that is that economically insecure non-graduates have swung back to Labour and graduates/the professions appear to be swinging away from the Tories even after they've become more secure/bought a house. But all the evidence from local elections, in polls and in that big MRP, is that Tory failures and Labour's message has won back support in the swing seats that went Tory in recent years and it feels like a very weird way of framing the story - but as I say very much in line with "Trump tried to stage a coup; but the people in this Altoona diner don't care".

Edit: On the other hand very much here for them rebranding the Blue Wall of places like Sussex and Somerset as the Sunbelt

[Josquius]

Is it just me who regularly sees grocers just using imperial measurements and ignoring metric anyway?

[Tamas]

Is it just me who regularly sees grocers just using imperial measurements and ignoring metric anyway?

So the North is less civilised. I can't recall ever seeing an imperial measurement around these parts.