Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Eddie Teach]

What's with this orcs slur?
I've seen it popping up on reddit too and leading to lots of deleted posts and bans from the Ukraine sub.

Ukrainians started calling the Russian invaders "Orcs" pretty much from day one of the invasion.

It's pretty apt, honestly. They're cruel and abusive, low morale, serve and evil empire, and have been shaped into that by cruel an abusive military institutions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y

Putin would be the "lord of the lash" in this case...

So who is Sauron?

[grumbler]

So who is Sauron?

Too easy.

[Malthus]

Heh, after the lame performance of the Russian military in this current invasion, plus his regime's combination of threats, extreme violence, and self-pitying bullshit, I would say Putin isn't Sauron - he's Gollum, if Gollum took back the ring and became the dark lord.

[Malthus]

This is an interesting assessment of current Russian military capacity of the eve of the new offensive. Paints a grim picture for the Russians.


Any of our military types want to comment on how realistic this is?

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-9

[jimmy olsen]

Yeah Threviel - I agree that Europe needs to plan for the case where the US elects Trump and Trump moves to support Russia over Ukraine. But I'm not sure I understand your special animus against Germany here.

Trump wouldn't be supporting Russia vs Ukraine. Trump was supplying Javelins and other nasty equipment to Ukraine when he was in office. I'd bet that he'd would be a lot faster in getting US armaments to Ukraine than it seems things are going now.

We're going to get Trump again, aren't we? 

I feel like it's going to be Desantis, but I've been wrong many times before.

[Threviel]

What's with this orcs slur?
I've seen it popping up on reddit too and leading to lots of deleted posts and bans from the Ukraine sub.

Ukrainians started calling the Russian invaders "Orcs" pretty much from day one of the invasion.

It's pretty apt, honestly. They're cruel and abusive, low morale, serve and evil empire, and have been shaped into that by cruel an abusive military institutions.

Apparently the Finnas also call them that since old, it seems to come natural for neighbours of Russia to associate Russians with comic book level evil.

[Threviel]

I find Orcs a very apt description of the Russian society and army. And by that I mean orcs in the Tolkien sense, not the Warhammer orcs.

A brutal ruthless society where life is cheap and everything is ugly and barely maintained. In war a horde where the life of the individual orc has no value, harsh discipline, no esprit de corps, plundering and laying waste ruthlessly. They destroy because they want to destroy and they hate everything that is beautiful. A horde that leaves a wasteland behind them. All under a ruthless dark lord holding it all together, when he is no more they turn on each other.

The pictures coming out of Ukraine might as well have come from Gondor or Hithlum.

[Zanza]

Dehumanizing enemies is understandable from an emotional perspective, but not good policy. It typically just leads to further atrocities.   

[Tamas]

Dehumanizing enemies is understandable from an emotional perspective, but not good policy. It typically just leads to further atrocities.   

Indeed. As I mentioned I have already seen "orc" being used in Hungary to dehumanise gypsies. So, as much as I share the extremely low opinion on Russian society, not to mention their conduct in this war, you guys might want to moderate your enthusiasm for what is a pretty racist and dehumanising slur.

[Admiral Yi]

Some participants, such as those who raped, those who ziptied and shot civilians, and those who ordered missile strikes on hospitals and train stations, are worthy of dehumanization.

[Tamas]

Some participants, such as those who raped, those who ziptied and shot civilians, and those who ordered missile strikes on hospitals and train stations, are worthy of dehumanization.

Fair enough. But you wouldn't go ahead and discuss the merits of calling Arabs orcs for example would you? I just find it to be in bad taste with this particular group of ours here.

[DGuller]

No one dehumanizes Russians better than Russians themselves.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nLMSCY5txQ&ab_channel=SpeakTheTruth

have been using this guy's daily overviews and they seem pretty on the ball.
the pieces usually start with some news, then it's over to the map and iterating over the different fronts.
it also appears he's about 12 to 24 hours before the news cycle (at least the one where I live).

[Admiral Yi]

Fair enough. But you wouldn't go ahead and discuss the merits of calling Arabs orcs for example would you? I just find it to be in bad taste with this particular group of ours here.

I'd be comfortable discussing the merits of calling ISIS orcs.

[Threviel]

Dehumanizing enemies is understandable from an emotional perspective, but not good policy. It typically just leads to further atrocities.   

Indeed. As I mentioned I have already seen "orc" being used in Hungary to dehumanise gypsies. So, as much as I share the extremely low opinion on Russian society, not to mention their conduct in this war, you guys might want to moderate your enthusiasm for what is a pretty racist and dehumanising slur.

Luckily I talked about the Russian society and army, not the Russians... The soldiers in the Russian army behave like orcs and the Russian society behaves like an orc society. And I don't care one iota if it dehumanises them, if it makes it psychologically easier for the Ukrainians to put a bullet in their heads then I'm all for it.

The orcs have it easy, they can choose to not be orcs at any time, they only have to surrender or go home. unlike the Roma in Hungary where it's allegedly used as a racial slur.