Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[The Larch]

I guess the sanctions meant they couldn't carry tiki-torches?

Apparently a not insignificant amount of the audience were public workers coerced to attend and students that were told that they'd get to see a concert for free.

[Barrister]

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1504787292497620994

Blue-checkmark Russian journalist (now based in Latvia) with video of people leaving the stadium as soon as they arrived - they are government employees who got the day off work if they came.

No doubt others in the crowd do support the war though.

[celedhring]

I watched some clips from the acts and they were really shitty, I was kinda reminded of Trump's inauguration concert. It makes me feel better than the fash can't do good music.

[Sheilbh]

I watched some clips from the acts and they were really shitty, I was kinda reminded of Trump's inauguration concert. It makes me feel better than the fash can't do good music.

Pls don't slander YMCA like this

[celedhring]

Nationalist Russian Bruce Springsteen is quite something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coeH02wg4lE&ab_channel=%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2

(old clip)

[The Larch]

Nationalist Russian Bruce Springsteen is quite something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coeH02wg4lE&ab_channel=%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2

(old clip)

I don't know if I want subtitles for that song or not.

[Josquius]

Were any of the singers at that event people of note?
I could imagine some being attracted to go for Fascist Dolly Parton or whatever and then leaving after she does her bit.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm seeing a Russian Rick Springfield.

Just to be clear Larch, you're not stereotyping Springfield as some uber patriot on the basis of Born in the USA, are you?

[celedhring]

Nationalist Russian Bruce Springsteen is quite something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coeH02wg4lE&ab_channel=%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2

(old clip)

I don't know if I want subtitles for that song or not.

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/sdelan-v-sssr-%D1%81%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD-%D0%B2-%D1%81%D1%81%D1%81%D1%80-made-ussr.html

It's USSR nostalgia. The part where he lists all the constituent parts (which ends with "and the Baltics too!") now sounds like a threat. 

[celedhring]

I'm seeing a Russian Rick Springfield.

Just to be clear Larch, you're not stereotyping Springfield as some uber patriot on the basis of Born in the USA, are you?

I suppose you mean me. I do consider Springsteen an American patriot indeed, but the good kind of patriot. Born in the USA isn't a "America, fuck yeah" song, I know that. 

I referenced Springsteen because the Russian dude is imitating his 1980s look, plus the song title is a riff on Born in the USA.

[Berkut]

One thing I've always found odd about rampant over-Nationalism like what you see in Russia, or what you saw even in the USSR, is how people are so convinced of the awesomeness of their awesome, even when the evidence right in front of them would suggest that if you think Russia is so fucking great....why is it is fucking terrible?

If Russia is so star spangled awesome, why is everyone an alcoholic by the time they are like, 12? As an example.

Of course, I know the answer - it's the same answer to the question of why people seem to believe Trump really won. The power of the tribe and the emotional need to suffer any cognitive dissonance necessary so you can maintain your place in it overcomes (apparently trivially overcomes) the actual evidence in front of your eyeballs.

[Admiral Yi]

I suppose you mean me.

oops

[Josquius]

One thing I've always found odd about rampant over-Nationalism like what you see in Russia, or what you saw even in the USSR, is how people are so convinced of the awesomeness of their awesome, even when the evidence right in front of them would suggest that if you think Russia is so fucking great....why is it is fucking terrible?

If Russia is so star spangled awesome, why is everyone an alcoholic by the time they are like, 12? As an example.

Of course, I know the answer - it's the same answer to the question of why people seem to believe Trump really won. The power of the tribe and the emotional need to suffer any cognitive dissonance necessary so you can maintain your place in it overcomes (apparently trivially overcomes) the actual evidence in front of your eyeballs.

I know in the North Korean context for a while this was based on reality. The north was doing significantly better than the south in terms of economy and quality of life and other development factors. Clearly their system was better....
Then when the reality changed... They moved onto lies. Its not like people could go check the south.. .
But after a while they then just shifted what they were arguing about. These days it's purity.
Oh yes sure the south looks good with all these fancy goods and flashy dance moves.... But they're American slaves with their Korean blood being polluted by black soldiers and their spirit broken and all that. If it wasn't for America trying and failing to crack the north why it would be even more wonderful materially!

Fascism by nature tends to be based on a cult mentality and a belief that bizzare abstract things are really important and real problems are the fault of others.
I really wouldn't be surprised if Russia blames its substance abuse issues on foreigners.

[celedhring]

One thing I've always found odd about rampant over-Nationalism like what you see in Russia, or what you saw even in the USSR, is how people are so convinced of the awesomeness of their awesome, even when the evidence right in front of them would suggest that if you think Russia is so fucking great....why is it is fucking terrible?

If Russia is so star spangled awesome, why is everyone an alcoholic by the time they are like, 12? As an example.

Of course, I know the answer - it's the same answer to the question of why people seem to believe Trump really won. The power of the tribe and the emotional need to suffer any cognitive dissonance necessary so you can maintain your place in it overcomes (apparently trivially overcomes) the actual evidence in front of your eyeballs.

I agree, but even cognitive dissonance has its limits. The way to explain away "hey, this is actually a quite shitty place" is using political/religious/ethnic scapegoats, stabbed in the back myths, or having frugality/resilience extoled as part of the inherent national character. Fascist Spain did all those to a degree.

Franco Spain was also big in "yeah, we aren't perfect but this place is peaceful and stable, look at all the chaos outside", which I think it's also a big thing in Russia nationalist propaganda.

[Sheilbh]

The FT "visual storytelling team" were outstanding especially at the start of covid. They're outstanding again, this is very good:
https://ig.ft.com/russias-war-in-ukraine-mapped