Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Razgovory]

Plus maybe going beyond polite refined fact checking and start calling out Carlson and the like for the fucking traitors they are.

I've gotten used to their disinformation machine being abused to screw around with tax policy and sabotage Democrats but carrying water for Putin's clique while he is mass murdering his way through Ukraine is going too far.

As I've been saying for years: Murdoch is a cancer.

I wonder if any NSA / CIA / other national security types are motivated / empowered to investigate to what degree Fox has been suborned by hostile foreign interests.

I doubt Murdoch is compromised or anything like that.  I seriously doubt most of the people repeating Putin's propaganda are agents, or bought off or compromised.  They like Putin and like what he represents.  They like his "traditional values" they like his ruthlessness, they like his personality cult and they like his displays of what they think is strength.  They want their own Putin in their own countries.  This is far more damning than being bought blackmailed or paid.  A person blackmailed is at least somewhat innocent.  A person who is bribed is guilty of being greedy and callous but not necessarily worse than that.  The people who support Putin want dictatorships.  They want the rest of us crushed under their heels.  That makes them much, much worse.


I remember this picture from back in 2014  I think it accurately sums up both Putin's view and his enablers in the West.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

On inane cultural nonsense - as well as the Cardiff Philharmonic cancelling their Tchaikovsky programme (),

they could always play Swanlake, over and over again.

[The Brain]

*shrug* Russia's brand is toxic. Which is hardly surprising.

so it is cool to discriminate against people if their nation of origin does something stupid?

As long as the discrimination isn't illegal I don't care what concert organizers or whatever do.

[Jacob]

I doubt Murdoch is compromised or anything like that....

Why do you doubt that? They've moved in the same social circles for decades. Wendi Deng (Murdoch's wife for 14 years) apparently dated Putin after the divorce... and even if they didn't, they moved in the same circles for years.

Wendi Deng, the Trumps (and Kushner)< and Putin have been consistently linked in the social life of the rich and powerful for decades.

[viper37]

On inane cultural nonsense - as well as the Cardiff Philharmonic cancelling their Tchaikovsky programme (), I see the Montreal Symphony Orchestra has called off a concert by a young Russian pianist who has repeatedly spoken out against the war It just seems very bizarre.

from CBC, it appears some artists refused to play with him because the money he's paid would go back to Russia.

I think it's just plain stupid in this case.

Boycotting someone who supported and enabled Putin is one thing, but targeting every single Russian because they are Russian is just plain dumb.

[viper37]

*shrug* Russia's brand is toxic. Which is hardly surprising.

so it is cool to discriminate against people if their nation of origin does something stupid?

you're in trouble, dude. 

[Zanza]

Watching how that armor column piled up into a chokepoint to be hit at the head then the tail which made advance and retreat a far slower deal...the Russian "change is tactics" is to try the same thing as earlier but with more stupid.

Honest question: Is driving tanks single file down a road a sensible military tactic? I thought the whole point of tracked vehicles is that they can go off road, so that you circumvent situations like this. 

[alfred russel]

*shrug* Russia's brand is toxic. Which is hardly surprising.

so it is cool to discriminate against people if their nation of origin does something stupid?

you're in trouble, dude. 

?

[The Brain]

People are dying in Ukraine. Harsh blanket sanctions against Russia are hitting normal Russians regardless of political opinion. Worrying about reduced income for some Russian artists seems to me to be way down the list of priorities.

[OttoVonBismarck]

*shrug* Russia's brand is toxic. Which is hardly surprising.

so it is cool to discriminate against people if their nation of origin does something stupid?

Russians are the enemy, some of you kids that don't understand this confuse me.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Watching how that armor column piled up into a chokepoint to be hit at the head then the tail which made advance and retreat a far slower deal...the Russian "change is tactics" is to try the same thing as earlier but with more stupid.

Honest question: Is driving tanks single file down a road a sensible military tactic? I thought the whole point of tracked vehicles is that they can go off road, so that you circumvent situations like this. 

Moving in a column is sound practice situationally, and tracked vehicles move much faster on roads. If the Ukrainian mud is as bad as suggested even tracked vehicles may get stuck or slowed down tremendously.

[Sheilbh]

Why do you doubt that? They've moved in the same social circles for decades. Wendi Deng (Murdoch's wife for 14 years) apparently dated Putin after the divorce... and even if they didn't, they moved in the same circles for years.

Wasn't the Wendi Deng rumour that she was having an affair with Tony Blair?

I'm not sure Murdoch's compromised in any real way. Beyond general right-wingness I don't think he particularly cares what any of his outlets are reporting as long as it's getting in viewers and doing better than their competitors (Fox News is light years from Murdoch's UK or Australian media outlets for example, but there's a market for it) and I think he likes having power and having people scared of him. In the UK the Sun has endorsed Labour and Tories under Murdoch - but he likes them to always endorse the winner (and so far they have) so they can claim "it was the Sun wot won it". They probably didn't and there's no loyalty, I just think he likes politicians to think they owe their power to him.

In fairness that's not a million miles away from the Russian oligarchs and Londongrad - there's lots of focus on their donations to the Tories, but I think that's because the Tories have been in power for the last ten years. Until about 2008 they used to mainly donate to Labour - famously Lord Mandelson was a regular guest of Oleg Deripaska (now sanctioned) on his yacht.

I think that's why, from my understanding, Fox have pivoted hard on Ukraine (even Tucker Carlson) - because the directive from above is keep the audience watching. I think it's that combined with zero interest in any form of gatekeeping that marks out a Murdoch outlet.

[Razgovory]

I doubt Murdoch is compromised or anything like that....

Why do you doubt that? They've moved in the same social circles for decades. Wendi Deng (Murdoch's wife for 14 years) apparently dated Putin after the divorce... and even if they didn't, they moved in the same circles for years.

Wendi Deng, the Trumps (and Kushner)< and Putin have been consistently linked in the social life of the rich and powerful for decades.

So?  That's not evidence of Kompromat.  I don't believe that a vast array of the people have been suborned by Russian intelligence.  I don't think the Russians have the resources for that.  Instead I believe there are lots of bad people in the world.

I used the world "suborned" in a sentence!

[The Brain]

Speaking of discrimination: last week Swedish annual big (10k+ participants) 90km ski race Vasaloppet took place. The organizers banned Russian skiers from participating, and when questioned about the legality of this discrimination they scoffed and said they'll take their chances in court. FWIW I think this is an extremely unsound approach. I don't know if what they did turned out to be (or will turn out to be) illegal or not, but that attitude to the law is unattractive and I think very destructive. The law isn't a smörgåsbord where you pick what you like and ignore the rest.

[The Brain]

I know very little of Murdoch and similar people, but most Putin lovers lick his anus because they like it. No kompromat necessary. Murdoch is not a victim of blackmail, but a willing disciple, a whore of Satan.