Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Threviel]

To be fair to the politicians they have probable seen it coming, but unless the voters see it it's hard to motivate spending billions on weapons.

Now that the voters want action they are tripping over their feet to increase defense spending.

[HVC]

Is Russian money the official German political pension plan. Was merkel  lucky enough to get some cash before the sanctions?

I believe Schussel is Austrian.

Bah, they're all the same!

 

[Admiral Yi]

To be fair to the politicians they have probable seen it coming, but unless the voters see it it's hard to motivate spending billions on weapons.

Now that the voters want action they are tripping over their feet to increase defense spending.

Money might be the easy part.  Are they going to be able to recruit more people?

[The Brain]

To be fair to the politicians they have probable seen it coming, but unless the voters see it it's hard to motivate spending billions on weapons.

Now that the voters want action they are tripping over their feet to increase defense spending.

Money might be the easy part.  Are they going to be able to recruit more people?

These days the military is being rushed by volunteers. And of course Sweden has conscription.

[Tamas]

I also feel sorry for the Russian soldiers who are forced to fight a war they were not prepared for.  Conscripts thrown into the meat grinder are victims too.

They have guns. If they don't agree with the war they can shoot their officers and surrender to the Ukrainians.

They are perpetrators.

They also do not live in a pinko democracy like you, and I expect they families home.

[The Brain]

I also feel sorry for the Russian soldiers who are forced to fight a war they were not prepared for.  Conscripts thrown into the meat grinder are victims too.

They have guns. If they don't agree with the war they can shoot their officers and surrender to the Ukrainians.

They are perpetrators.

They also do not live in a pinko democracy like you, and I expect they families home.

Families who won't be executed because their son is MIA in Ukraine. You may cry for the poor Russian soldiers if you want, but tear-falling pity dwells not in this eye.

[Tamas]

I also feel sorry for the Russian soldiers who are forced to fight a war they were not prepared for.  Conscripts thrown into the meat grinder are victims too.

They have guns. If they don't agree with the war they can shoot their officers and surrender to the Ukrainians.

They are perpetrators.

They also do not live in a pinko democracy like you, and I expect they families home.

Families who won't be executed because their son is MIA in Ukraine. You may cry for the poor Russian soldiers if you want, but tear-falling pity dwells not in this eye.

What I mean is that surrendering is not that an easy and straightforward choice as you make it out to be. Just not sticking your neck out seems like a much more obvious choice, and what they are already doing.

They are not getting any sympathy from me, they need to be killed or captured as they do serve an evil regime invading a sovereign country. But some empathy is useful to think with the other guy's head and understand his likely behaviour.

[celedhring]

Russian friend of mine that lives in San Petersburg has started posting anti-repression stuff on her IG - which was previously inhabited with pictures of cats, food, and going out.

[celedhring]

Lots of messages online that Russia is appointing Yanukovych as head of the Ukrainian government 

[The Brain]

I also feel sorry for the Russian soldiers who are forced to fight a war they were not prepared for.  Conscripts thrown into the meat grinder are victims too.

They have guns. If they don't agree with the war they can shoot their officers and surrender to the Ukrainians.

They are perpetrators.

They also do not live in a pinko democracy like you, and I expect they families home.

Families who won't be executed because their son is MIA in Ukraine. You may cry for the poor Russian soldiers if you want, but tear-falling pity dwells not in this eye.

What I mean is that surrendering is not that an easy and straightforward choice as you make it out to be. Just not sticking your neck out seems like a much more obvious choice, and what they are already doing.

They are not getting any sympathy from me, they need to be killed or captured as they do serve an evil regime invading a sovereign country. But some empathy is useful to think with the other guy's head and understand his likely behaviour.

I think our basic disagreement is minor.

I think it's great to include honey in the efforts to make Russians surrender (or desert, or make things slooow, etc), and I think it's important to understand their mindset, their fears and wishes, to select the best tools to make them give up the fight. But that's not the same as feeling sorry for them. I can smile and be kind to someone without feeling any sympathy for them.

And I don't think surrendering is easy, neither in a practical sense nor an emotional sense. But when you're an adult, and especially when you're an adult with a gun, you make decisions. Some decisions are more difficult than others, but they are still decisions. They can't claim a lack of agency.

[Tamas]

Yeah, fair enough.

[jimmy olsen]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1498945849258397696
https://twitter.com/chrsaile/status/1498948785631809536
https://twitter.com/chrsaile/status/1498949612815724553

The mayor of #Konotop declares that the occupiers have delivered an ultimatum - either he surrenders the city to them, or they will completely destroy it.

Mayor: They have given us the condition: Surrender or the city will be shelled with artillery. We have a choice, surrender or fight. [Repeats]. We vote, who is for fighting?
Crowd: [Rather undecided.]

Mayor: I'm for it. But we have to make the decision together, because the attack will be on the whole city.

Translated by my fiancee, while we received the message that Odessa is being attacked, where her mother is stuck. My heart is bleeding.

EDIT: The Russians who made the demand to the mayor above held grenades in their hands as a deadman safety features to keep from getting lynched
https://twitter.com/kemal_115/status/1498960233544224770

[Tamas]

Russian friend of mine that lives in San Petersburg has started posting anti-repression stuff on her IG - which was previously inhabited with pictures of cats, food, and going out.

That's a good sign, best of luck to your friend.


Also, it would be awesome if they did try to re-instate Yanukovich, but probably not even Putin is deranged enough for that yet, unless he really is in full-fledged "why? Because FU that's why" mode.

[Tamas]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1498945849258397696
https://twitter.com/chrsaile/status/1498948785631809536
https://twitter.com/chrsaile/status/1498949612815724553

The mayor of #Konotop declares that the occupiers have delivered an ultimatum - either he surrenders the city to them, or they will completely destroy it.

Mayor: They have given us the condition: Surrender or the city will be shelled with artillery. We have a choice, surrender or fight. [Repeats]. We vote, who is for fighting?
Crowd: [Rather undecided.]

Mayor: I'm for it. But we have to make the decision together, because the attack will be on the whole city.

Translated by my fiancee, while we received the message that Odessa is being attacked, where her mother is stuck. My heart is bleeding.

EDIT: The Russians who made the demand to the mayor above held grenades in their hands as a deadman safety features to keep from getting lynched
https://twitter.com/kemal_115/status/1498960233544224770

That is grim.

[Syt]

EDIT: The Russians who made the demand to the mayor above held grenades in their hands as a deadman safety features to keep from getting lynched
https://twitter.com/kemal_115/status/1498960233544224770

"We come to liberate you from your Nazi oppressors! ... But we also believe you would kill us without hesitation, given half a chance. .... Glass half full?"