Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Zanza]

GDPR and AI go hand in hand. The only real thing that limits AI development is data privacy protection and the GDPR clause that necessitates human oversight of AI decisions. Besides that, there is very little regulation that stops you from building and deploying AI. That's why the Chinese are so good at it. They have basically no privacy protection.

[Tamas]

Also what do they mean by "modernising" EU vehicle standards? All cars sold in the UK will have to have an integrated Dyson vacuum cleaner and a Wetherspoons sticker?

[Zanza]

I guess another area where AI might be limited is liability for its decisions, but I am not aware of any EU rules on that.

[Agelastus]

I read today the Tories are looking to reintroduce imperial measures as a brexit win.
Shitty in itself but not life destroying. A petty inconvenience to get the flag shaggers masturbating furiously.
But...it seems very likely this is just a screen for something much worse to come.
Depressing.

If true (which I am fairly certain it isn't) how is that not a big deal? Do we really HAVE to move further from the civilised world?

I want to buy 10 carrots then I buy 10 carrots. I don't really pay attention to how many kg it is.
The days of going from grocer to grocer trying to get the best deal are quite in the past.
More often than not stuff is sold by the bag even (which is something that needs to stop to be fair) which makes the weight even less relevant.
I don't see it having much of a practical effect on my life outside of very few occasions where I'm buying from a butcher or grocer- already the local grocer sells its veg in imperial with no sign of metric.
Its a stupid move of that there is no doubt. Most of the population knows metric as their primary unit of measurement by now. But its a clear distraction and attempt to kick up culture war nonsense.

I'm not sure how much difference being legally allowed to sell items with the primary labelling in Imperial will make. While items are labelled primarily in metric, a lot of items have not actually changed their sizes.

Milk is still primarily sold in multiples of pints - where it isn't they are still dual labelled (the litre bottle of milk in my fridge is also labelled 1.76 pints in not much smaller writing.)

Burgers are still made and sold in 4, 6 and 8 ounce multiples (and still sold by name as quarter pounder and half pounder etc. - even though the official weight labelling for a pack of 4 quarter pounders is 454g.)

I doubt gallon prices will reappear at petrol stations after all (while I am sure the dual pricing that was displayed when I was younger disappeared due to a changeover period ending, I know it felt at the time that petrol stations stopped displaying gallon prices for fear of scaring their customers!)

[Tamas]

I just don't like this encouragement of disconnect from the rest of the globe. It reinforces isolationist tendencies.

[Sheilbh]

GDPR and AI go hand in hand. The only real thing that limits AI development is data privacy protection and the GDPR clause that necessitates human oversight of AI decisions. Besides that, there is very little regulation that stops you from building and deploying AI. That's why the Chinese are so good at it. They have basically no privacy protection.

That's not right.

The European Commission have, from memory, published three or four documents on "ethical AI" which goes beyond privacy and there is an intention to write an "AI Regulation". The framework for that is also that the EU positions itself as "ethical" tech leader - so the US is hyper-capitalist, China is national security focused and the EU is the third power focused on ethics.

This is the classic example of an area where we know the direction of travel is towards regulation but we don't know what that regulation is going to look like. It's more than just privacy from the documents the Commission's released and also if it was just GDPR then you don't need a new AI regulation. I would say having worked with a few start-up businesses that the lack of clarity is a concern and considered a risk. So I'm very keen on establishing a legal or regulatory framework so everyone knows what they can and can't do.

On that GDPR clause it's something I've advised and the difficulty I have with the current way it works is I don't see the difference between it being automated v having a policy. So it bans "solely automated decision making" that has a legal effect and an example is landlords who have a policy that applies to everyone that you need to have a net income at least double rent - it's not lawful for them to have an algorithm to do that, but it is lawful if they use a calculator. I don't think there's actually any difference.

Also China does now have a privacy law - largely based on GDPR with some adaptations and, as you'd expect, significant lee-way if using data is "required by law" or government authority

I saw that they announced their GDPR rework plan by assuring people they'll get rid of those "annoying popups".

Almost certainly - although that GDPR and e-Privacy. The current Information Commissioner has raised this internationally as well with other regulators - but there are privacy concerns with the popups. Mainly that there is "consent fatigue" so people actually just click whatever to get past it - rather than reviewing the detail and working out what data they want to share - and end up sharing more data than they expect or would want.

From my understanding we're not there yet technically but the preference of the UK regulator (and it's been flagged by European regulators) for the long-run seems to be browser settings - so I can decide which data I'm happy to share and which I'm not and all websites sort of follow/only get the data that I've permissioned in the browser. The view is that gives more meaningful privacy control.

[Sheilbh]

Also what do they mean by "modernising" EU vehicle standards? All cars sold in the UK will have to have an integrated Dyson vacuum cleaner and a Wetherspoons sticker?

From the Guardian:

Rules on GM farming and cars to be top of UK bonfire of EU laws
Minister reveals plans to change laws inherited from EU, with rules on medical devices also in crosshairs
Lisa O'Carroll Brexit correspondent
@lisaocarroll
Thu 16 Sep 2021 16.27 BST

Rules on genetically modified farming, medical devices and vehicle standards will be top of a bonfire of laws inherited from the EU as the government seeks to change legislation automatically transferred to the UK after Brexit.

Thousands of laws and regulations are to be reviewed, modified or repealed under a new programme aimed at cementing the UK's independence and "Brexit opportunities", David Frost has announced.

Measures include permitting the voluntary printing of the crown stamp on pint glasses and reviewing the EU ban on markings and sales in pounds and ounces – with legislation "in due course".

The Brexit minister told peers the government had a "mammoth task" ahead to improve or remove laws inherited through 50 years of the "legislative sausage machine" in Brussels.

In the run-up to Brexit, the UK laid down 960 statutory instruments to roll EU laws over to the British statute books. The government is now looking at "developing a tailored mechanism for accelerating the repeal or amendment" of those, which may concern some MPs who fear the results of rushed lawmaking.

Government procurement rules, which have required contracts from national to local council to go to open tender, would also be modified, along with rules around data and artificial intelligence, Lord Frost told the House of Lords.

The Brexit minister also announced that members of the public could contribute to the bonfire of laws. A standards commission would be established and, "under visible and energetic leadership", would be able to pick up "ideas from any British citizen on how to repeal or improve regulation".

Frost said now was the time to deliver the Brexit promise to "unleash Britain's potential" and "improve growth and prosperity for everyone".

The moves hark back to longstanding pledges of successive Conservative leaders and Brexiters to loosen the grip of EU law, including David Cameron, who promised to light "a bonfire of red tape", and Nigel Lawson, who called for a "massive regulatory cull".

Frost promised a "review of the inherited approach to genetically modified organisms", which include insects and soil bacteria used in farming, along with reform of "outdated EU legislation" around medical devices and clinical trials. This, he suggested, would help British research and development and help speed up access to lifesaving medicines for patients.

The Department for Transport would also be unveiling a new strategy to adapt EU standards for vehicles including cars and lorries to take advantage of "new transport technologies" and to ditch or repeal EU port services regulations, which the industry says have held back small ports because of onerous rules on cargo, mooring and ship-generated waste.

Frost promised to "supercharge" the artificial intelligence sector with the imminent publication of a national strategy to lead the world in the "AI ecosystem". His announcement was a formal response to the initial recommendations from the taskforce on innovation, growth and regulatory reform, led by Iain Duncan Smith, one of the cheerleaders for lighter regulation.

"We now have the opportunity to do things differently and ensure that Brexit freedoms are used to help businesses and citizens get on and succeed. Today's announcement is just the beginning. The government will go further and faster to create a competitive, high-standards regulatory environment which supports innovation and growth across the UK as we build back better from the pandemic," said Frost.

Emily Thornberry, the shadow international trade secretary, questioned why the government was talking about Brexit opportunities while the country faced continuing shortages of staff and supplies and while exporters faced mounting losses on trade with the EU and businesses in Northern Ireland were "stuck in limbo".

"Into all of that along comes the new paymaster general to talk about all the wonderful opportunities that await us because of the marvellous Brexit deal which is working so well at present," she said.

It's not totally clear

But some of this is the benefit of Brexit - smaller, nimbler decision making. As an example, you mentioned pop-ups, the EU is intending to reform e-Privacy law which requires pop-ups but the negotiations on the draft have been going on since 2012 and show no sign of reaching a resolution.

I think there could be first mover advantage in being able to say x, y and z AI is legal - here are the rules - or doing the same for new vehicle technologies.

I think that is a better route than just looking to get rid of old regulations/de-regulation for the sake of it.

[Zanza]

Okay, writing new regulation on AI is of course something that can have benefit for the UK and where it might diverge from the EU in a meaningful and potentially beneficial way if it has different priorities.  But as far as repealing EU regulations goes, Britain can obviously not repeal a not yet written EU regulation on AI.

[Zanza]

Also what do they mean by "modernising" EU vehicle standards? All cars sold in the UK will have to have an integrated Dyson vacuum cleaner and a Wetherspoons sticker?

It's not clear. In this concrete list, the only relevant bits are on drivers licenses and diabetes control for commercial drivers...
https://t.co/LVfKVFWQ5g?amp=1

[Sheilbh]

Arguably digital driving licences and heavy duty vehicle MOT reform but I don't really see the link to the EU on those or to new technologies

[Zanza]

9. Creating a new "standing commission" for "reducing or eliminating" regulations

I have no idea what 8 means and I think that's about the fourth time 9 has been announced

Such a commission is actually an efficient means to drop or create regulation that vested interest groups want. There will likely be much less public scrutiny for such a commission than for parliament and much easier to influence (bribe).

[Duque de Bragança]

Anglo-Gaullism is a hugely absurd oxymoron.

Perfect!

So no need to add that de Gaulle's objectif was not to separate his country from Europe? Perfect!
He just wanted to get rid of the pernicious Brits. 

[Duque de Bragança]

I read today the Tories are looking to reintroduce imperial measures as a brexit win.
Shitty in itself but not life destroying. A petty inconvenience to get the flag shaggers masturbating furiously.
But...it seems very likely this is just a screen for something much worse to come.
Depressing.

If true (which I am fairly certain it isn't) how is that not a big deal? Do we really HAVE to move further from the civilised world?

I want to buy 10 carrots then I buy 10 carrots. I don't really pay attention to how many kg it is.
The days of going from grocer to grocer trying to get the best deal are quite in the past.
More often than not stuff is sold by the bag even (which is something that needs to stop to be fair) which makes the weight even less relevant.
I don't see it having much of a practical effect on my life outside of very few occasions where I'm buying from a butcher or grocer- already the local grocer sells its veg in imperial with no sign of metric.

In metric lands, you would still ask for 10 carrots. Une livre (metric pound) of carrots is a bit old-fashioned, probably still understood in markets. 

[Sheilbh]

Such a commission is actually an efficient means to drop or create regulation that vested interest groups want. There will likely be much less public scrutiny for such a commission than for parliament and much easier to influence (bribe).

I think it's very unlikely that's what they mean. There are other "standing commissions" - they are all advisory and normally made up of experts in their field to provide formal advice to government. So what I'd anticipate is instead of these ad-hoc committees on "reducing or eliminating" regulations (I can think of at least 3) there's a permanent one with that remit that advises government but legislative power stays with government and parliament.

On vehicles I looked up the TIGGR (IDS commission on regulatory reform) report and they have a section on "future transport". Their recommendations were:
Develop a regulatory framework for automated vehicles on public roads;
Build more chargepoint infrastructure;
Update maritime law to allow testing and deployment of "Marine Autonomous Surface Ships";
Develop a micro-mobility regulator framework to cover e-scooters on the roads and other future micro-mobility products;
Encourage use of regulatory sandboxes;
Update civil aviation rules to allow drones to be used more easily "beyond visual line of sight"; and
Reduce chemical regulation requirements to make it easier to authorise farmers to use drones for crop-spraying.

As before, it seems far more diverging in future plans/building new regulations rather than ending current regulations. I've never thought there'd be the bonfire of regulations - there might be some shifts but not wholesale getting rid of them as the sort of Dan Hannan wing of Toryism might like, because most of those regulations have enough support to make it difficult. Divergence has, I think always, been about what regulations look like in 5-10 years in the EU and the UK not throwing out the current rulebook (which is why dynamic alignment was such a bit issue for the UK government).

So no need to add that de Gaulle's objectif was not to separate his country from Europe? Perfect!

Obvs - but (and I don't know how much I'd back it) for Anglo-Gaullism Europe is America.

[Sheilbh]

Two other points from the re-shuffle.

Sunak is apparently furious after Johnson replaced all of the junior ministers in the Treasury which is a pretty big power-play. They've been broadly replaced with people who are more comfortable with spending/Johnson's agenda than Sunak's line.

Separately I've mentioned before how Johnson has - 10 years after Cameron got rid of it in an attempt to cut bureaucracy - restored the Number 10 Delivery Unit which was set up by Blair. Since Cameron got rid of it, all PMs have actually found it quite difficult to monitor whether their priorities are being acted on by departments which is exactly why Blair set it up

But the delivery unit gave a briefing to cabinet today and this is almost a pure New Labour description: "how her team will help drive forward the work needed to deliver the people's priorities including health and social care, crime, education and skills, climate change and levelling up."

Edit: Also this is pretty fascinating. A piece in the Independent from 1997 predicting the future members of a Labour, Tory or Lib Dem cabinet - the Labour and Lib Dem picks have largely left politics now. But the Tory picks have a few who were around the cabinet very recently:
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/cabinet-tomorrow-1277684.html

ROBERT BUCKLAND
A barrister, aged 28, Buckland claims to be the first Conservative "in living memory" to be elected to Dyfed County Council. He is the Tory candidate for Preseli Pembrokeshire, a new seat with "a notional Conservative majority of circa 600," he says. He has 10 years of local party activism behind him, serving for three years as chairman of Llanelli Conservative Association; he fought (but didn't win) the 1994 European elections in South West Wales.

NADHIM ZAHAWI
A sales director for a children's clothes manufacturer and a local councillor, 29-year-old Zahawi is the candidate for Erith and Thamesmead, a new seat with a notional Labour majority of 5,630. Zahawi's parents are Kurdish and came to Britain from northern Iraq; he describes himself as "fortunate" to have gained "all the privileges of growing up in this country". He admires Margaret Thatcher for "the creation of the right economic climate that has proved so attractive to investors". He would seek to "build upon the Conservative successes in making Great Britain plc a worldbeater through the next millennium".

[...]

BORIS JOHNSON
Precocious associate editor and columnist for the Daily Telegraph, 32- year-old Johnson has been called the "rising star of the write, not right". After indulging his taste for politics and intrigue as president of the Oxford Union, Boris exercised his "belief in freedom" as a journalist, Eurobashing and penning paeans to British "ordinariness". Not shy in clashing with party lines, Boris would "renegotiate EU membership so Britain stands to Europe as Canada, not Texas, stands to the USA". Pericles, state-builder and negotiator of Athenian autonomy, is his hero. He is another one of our panel who is unlikely to make it to West- minster until 2002. He is standing in Clwyd South - but he is rumoured to be learning Welsh.

CHRIS GRAYLING
With a Labour majority of just 191, Warrington South is an exciting challenge for 34-year-old Grayling. He is director of an international communications group and has been a local party activist for the last 10 years. He says that "working for the BBC and hating its bureaucracy" was a radical influence on his political thinking and admires Margaret Thatcher.

And the great hope of the right who got away:

JOHN BERCOW
Bercow, 33, hired a helicopter to whizz him between two selection interviews on the same evening, before scooping up his selection for the safe seat of Buckingham. Not new to the political fast track, Bercow has pursued his parliamentary ambition with steady determination, acting as special adviser to Jonathan Aitken and Virginia Bottomley. A noted right-winger, he was chairman of the Federation of Conservative Students - reputedly so right-wing that it compelled Norman Tebbit to close it down. A consultant with Westminster Strategy, a lobbying outfit, he has maintained a Nolan- friendly line on outside financial interests: "I intend to take a parliamentary salary and no consultancies or directorships whatsoever," he says.

Edit: Oh also Chris Pincher who's a new Housing Minister:

CHRIS PINCHER
At 27, Pincher still has plenty of time to make it to Westminster in time to be part of our imagined Cabinet. This year's contest in Warley is not likely to be more than a trial run. Politicised by the miners' strike, Pincher spent a year as deputy director of Conservative students before acting as chairman of Islington North Conservative Association. He's an anti-state Con-servative, wanting to "reduce the intrusion of government in peoples' lives and its burden on their pockets". He would like to see the number of Cabinet ministers and departments cut, so maybe there won't be room for him in Cabinet 2020 after all. !