Poll
Question:
Is the masquerade necessary?
Option 1: Yes! The sheeple need to be kept in the dark!
votes: 7
Option 2: No! People need to know the truth!
votes: 6
In a lot of science fiction/urban fantasy set in the present day aliens and monsters are kept secret from the public because "they can't handle the truth". I think this is nonsense. Sure there may be some rioting at first, but people are flexible.
Being able to direct the entire strength of the nation/world against the problem whether it be the Grays or Werewolves or whatever is far better than countering them with just a handful of elite agents who have to keep everything they do secret.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Masquerade
Go flush your head in the nearest public toilet, please.
you give people way too much credit.
I like when they mow my lawn.
Quote from: HVC on May 21, 2013, 08:30:16 PM
you give people way too much credit.
Then vote yes
Yes. It is necessary to create a fictional world which is relatable yet exciting for the viewer.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2013, 08:34:52 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 21, 2013, 08:30:16 PM
you give people way too much credit.
Then vote yes
korea has made you all uppity. i miss old mild mannered tim :(
IRL- no. In fiction, Josq brings up a good point.
I vote the Seedy option.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fibankcoin.com%2Fflyblog%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F01%2FOGRE.jpg&hash=ede679cda607b5036791454295d35100fff42392)
I was torn between the Turtledove option (Tim is smashed under a falling Byzantine Empire) and the Stirling option (Tim is killed by a gratuitous lesbian), then I decided to vote for the Gor option (Tim gets run over by MB in a Humvee).
Quote from: Tyr on May 21, 2013, 08:51:29 PM
Yes. It is necessary to create a fictional world which is relatable yet exciting for the viewer.
Eh, it's equivalent to something like faking the moon landing. Covering up the Grey invasion or the supernatural is just not plausible, I can't relate to it.
A world with monsters lurking in the shadows is more relatable than one with them in the open.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2013, 09:41:03 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 21, 2013, 08:51:29 PM
Yes. It is necessary to create a fictional world which is relatable yet exciting for the viewer.
Eh, it's equivalent to something like faking the moon landing. Covering up the Grey invasion or the supernatural is just not plausible, I can't relate to it.
They covered up the 1847 military coup, the death of Crown Prince Edward in 1877, Finnish-Swedish war back in 1956.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 21, 2013, 10:13:04 PM
A world with monsters lurking in the shadows is more relatable than one with them in the open.
Most works of fiction set in the present don't have a handful of monsters lurking on the fringes of civilization. They have full blown international conspiracies covering up suspicious deaths all over the place.
This thread is really stupid.
look at the War On Terror, War on Drugs, Jooos Did It, Morgan Stanley Did It, The Russians Did It, etc.
Easiest way to keep people in line is fear of an easily identifiable common enemy. Aliens would be utilized as such if they existed, and not kept secret.
What the fuck am I reading?
Somebody explain the thread to Marty.
Quote from: fahdiz on May 22, 2013, 12:54:38 AM
This thread is really stupid.
It's a common enough phenomena in popular culture, why can't we discuss it?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2013, 11:07:40 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 21, 2013, 10:13:04 PM
A world with monsters lurking in the shadows is more relatable than one with them in the open.
Most works of fiction set in the present don't have a handful of monsters lurking on the fringes of civilization. They have full blown international conspiracies covering up suspicious deaths all over the place.
If you don't like it, try reading half-decent books.
Quote from: PDH on May 21, 2013, 09:21:46 PM
then I decided to vote for the Gor option (Tim gets run over by MB in a Humvee).
CABOT!
What a bizarre thread! :lol:
The answer is simple: if the book's plot requires that an alien presence be kept secret, then the author should present a plot in which it is kept secret. If the book's plot requires that an alien presence be made known, then the author should present a plot in which it is made known.
Authors of fiction have a great deal of freedom in deciding how the fictional people in their fictional works would react to the fictional information that fictional aliens were present on a fictional earth. Why anyone would think this concept thread-worthy is beyond me.
Quote from: grumbler on May 22, 2013, 06:08:32 AM
What a bizarre thread! :lol:
The answer is simple: if the book's plot requires that an alien presence be kept secret, then the author should present a plot in which it is kept secret. If the book's plot requires that an alien presence be made known, then the author should present a plot in which it is made known.
Authors of fiction have a great deal of freedom in deciding how the fictional people in their fictional works would react to the fictional information that fictional aliens were present on a fictional earth. Why anyone would think this concept thread-worthy is beyond me.
Hey, if it's worth writing a whole book... /shrug
Quote from: PDH on May 21, 2013, 09:21:46 PM
I was torn between the Turtledove option (Tim is smashed under a falling Byzantine Empire) and the Stirling option (Tim is killed by a gratuitous lesbian), then I decided to vote for the Gor option (Tim gets run over by MB in a Humvee).
YEEEEEEHAWWW! Then I would plant an American flag on his corpse while wildly firing a gun into the air.
It is only necessary for creating the illusion that this is the real world they are talking about. In reality a secret like that wouldn't stay kept for long anyway.
You need the masquerade to help with suspension of disbelief. If you are going to set a vampire story in modern times you need to explain why the reader doesn't know about them. The secret opens of for easily manufactured suspense and drama (assuming you introduced a sufficiently non-stupid masquerade). I actually prefer the masquerade induced drama to the normal my baby/girlfriend/bff/father/mother is in danger so I'll do something stupid kind of drama.
If you get it right it can help the story.
Are Jews a secret?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 22, 2013, 06:51:52 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 22, 2013, 06:08:32 AM
What a bizarre thread! :lol:
The answer is simple: if the book's plot requires that an alien presence be kept secret, then the author should present a plot in which it is kept secret. If the book's plot requires that an alien presence be made known, then the author should present a plot in which it is made known.
Authors of fiction have a great deal of freedom in deciding how the fictional people in their fictional works would react to the fictional information that fictional aliens were present on a fictional earth. Why anyone would think this concept thread-worthy is beyond me.
Hey, if it's worth writing a whole book... /shrug
I guess, g, has different standards for evaluating books.
Well, we've got 50 pages on tea party tax evasion and nearly 200 on Canadian politics, obviously just about anything is "thread worthy". :homestar:
I think that staging a costume ball is a sub-optimal response to the threat of fictional monsters.
So which way should I vote?
Quote from: garbon on May 22, 2013, 11:45:15 AM
I guess, g, has different standards for evaluating books.
Of course I do; my standards include that the writer has considered the needs of his plot. Your standards are different from that, I guess. To each his own.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 22, 2013, 01:15:21 PM
I think that staging a costume ball is a sub-optimal response to the threat of fictional monsters.
So which way should I vote?
How do you respond to fictional threats? Hold Congressional hearings?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 22, 2013, 11:56:08 AM
Well, we've got 50 pages on tea party tax evasion and nearly 200 on Canadian politics, obviously just about anything is "thread worthy". :homestar:
I don't mind threads that have controversies in them. This one doesn't. There is no need for the aliens to engage in The Masquerade in
Independence Day; there was absolutely a need for them to engage in it in
V. In either movie the plot wouldn't work with the opposite choice made.
So the answer to "is the masquerade necessary" is "yes, where it is necessary, and no, where it isn't."
Quote from: grumbler on May 22, 2013, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 22, 2013, 11:56:08 AM
Well, we've got 50 pages on tea party tax evasion and nearly 200 on Canadian politics, obviously just about anything is "thread worthy". :homestar:
I don't mind threads that have controversies in them. This one doesn't. There is no need for the aliens to engage in The Masquerade in Independence Day; there was absolutely a need for them to engage in it in V. In either movie the plot wouldn't work with the opposite choice made.
So the answer to "is the masquerade necessary" is "yes, where it is necessary, and no, where it isn't."
I don't mind threads that don't have controversies, they tend to be less repetitive and over quicker. :contract:
However, it hasn't been universally agreed upon in this thread whether Tim should flush his head in a toilet or not. :hmm:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 22, 2013, 01:43:23 PM
However, it hasn't been universally agreed upon in this thread whether Tim should flush his head in a toilet or not. :hmm:
Yes, but a public one from an AM/PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 22, 2013, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 22, 2013, 01:15:21 PM
I think that staging a costume ball is a sub-optimal response to the threat of fictional monsters.
So which way should I vote?
How do you respond to fictional threats?
Throw the book at 'em.
Quote from: The Brain on May 22, 2013, 11:40:19 AM
Are Jews a secret?
I suspect they created the Laws of Attraction. :)
Quote from: Caliga on May 22, 2013, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 22, 2013, 11:40:19 AM
Are Jews a secret?
I suspect they created the Laws of Attraction. :)
I thought they created the Rules of Acquisition... :unsure:
Quote from: grumbler on May 22, 2013, 01:27:25 PM
So the answer to "is the masquerade necessary" is "yes, where it is necessary, and no, where it isn't."
Right. It's utterly dependent on the kind of story the author's trying to tell.
Quote from: grumbler on May 22, 2013, 01:27:25 PM
I don't mind threads that have controversies in them. This one doesn't. There is no need for the aliens to engage in The Masquerade in Independence Day; there was absolutely a need for them to engage in it in V. In either movie the plot wouldn't work with the opposite choice made.
If they were changed, the movie name would be
V Day. NYUK GET IT
Quote from: grumbler on May 22, 2013, 01:20:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 22, 2013, 11:45:15 AM
I guess, g, has different standards for evaluating books.
Of course I do; my standards include that the writer has considered the needs of his plot. Your standards are different from that, I guess. To each his own.
The writer could have considered it and chosen the ill-advised path.
Depends if you think he has a high threshold or faulty judgment.
Quote from: garbon on May 22, 2013, 04:44:07 PM
The writer could have considered it and chosen the ill-advised path.
My standards include the ability to discern that the path was ill-advised. Your standards couldn't, since they don't consider plot requirements.
Quote from: grumbler on May 23, 2013, 06:16:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 22, 2013, 04:44:07 PM
The writer could have considered it and chosen the ill-advised path.
My standards include the ability to discern that the path was ill-advised. Your standards couldn't, since they don't consider plot requirements.
Oh, okay.