I've decided to create a megathread dedicated to all things Rand Paul and his march to reclaiming the White House in 2016 for whites, libertarians, isolationists that fear the United Nations and everybody in between.
QuoteSen. Rand Paul aggressively courting evangelicals to win over GOP establishment
By Peter Wallsten, Sunday, May 12, 3:31 PM
Earlier this spring, Sen. Rand Paul and his wife, Kelley, invited a crew from the Christian Broadcasting Network into their Kentucky home for what turned into two full days of reality TV. In a half-hour special, "At Home With Rand Paul," the couple are seen bird-watching in the woods, going to McDonald's and, especially, talking about religion — their belief in traditional marriage and the senator's call for a "spiritual cleansing" in America.
The show was an unusual moment for Paul, who has gained fame as a live-and-let-live tea-party hero closely aligned with the libertarian movement inspired by his father, former representative Ron Paul (R-Tex.) — and not as a social conservative.
For the past few months, though, Paul has aggressively courted evangelicals, not only with the CBN special but also with a trip to Israel, numerous events with pastors and a handful of appearances in Iowa this weekend.
Paul's play for evangelical support is part of a broader effort by the rookie senator to court the Republican establishment — much of which views him with suspicion — and become a mainstream political player in a way his father never was. The younger Paul, for instance, does not call himself a libertarian, but rather a "libertarian Republican."
As he openly considers a run for president in 2016, Paul's rebranding effort is a test of his political skills as well as the state of the Republican Party. For the senator, the question is whether he can win over the establishment without upsetting his tea party base. For the GOP, Paul again raises the question of whether anyone can gain the trust of both sides.
The first step for Paul is to make clear who he is and who he is not. For instance, he embraces support for Israel and does not, as Ron Paul did during a memorable moment in a 2011 debate, deliver impassioned defenses for letting people use heroin if they want.
At a lunch Friday with about a dozen evangelical pastors in a Cedar Rapids hotel, the younger Paul assured the group that he disagrees with libertarians who support legalizing drugs. When one pastor inquired about ideological ties between Paul and his father, the senator asked that he be judged as his own man.
Several pastors who attended the meeting said they came away impressed, though some remained unconvinced. "I don't know that my concern has gone away, but I appreciated how he responded to the question," said the Rev. Clegguart Mitchell, senior pastor of the Leon Bible Church in Leon, Iowa.
In an interview a day before his Iowa trip, Paul, 50, also tried to make clear just what kind of politician he is. "To some, 'libertarian' scares people," he said. "Some of them come up to me and they say, 'I kind of like you, but I don't like legalizing heroin.' And I say, 'Well, that's not my position.' "
Paul said he believes in freedom and wants a "virtuous society" where people practice "self-restraint." Yet he believes in laws and limits as well. Instead of advocating for legalized drugs, for example, he pushes for reduced penalties for many drug offenses.
"I'm not advocating everyone go out and run around with no clothes on and smoke pot," he said. "I'm not a libertarian. I'm a libertarian Republican. I'm a constitutional conservative."
The rollout of the new Paul brand continued Friday night in Iowa, home to the first-in-the-nation presidential caucuses, where he headlined a sold-out Republican Party dinner and drew repeated applause from GOP activists.
Visiting key states, groups
Paul's busy schedule includes stops in two other crucial presidential primary states, New Hampshire and South Carolina. A May 20 appearance with Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus in New Hampshire aims to help the party connect with Paul's libertarian and tea party base.
Later in May, Paul plans to deliver a formal address at the Ronald Reagan Library in California laying out his vision for the future of the party.
He will also hold sessions with evangelical pastors in several states, similar to the one in Iowa on Friday afternoon.
Some of those same pastors started to get to know Paul in January during a tour of Christian holy sites in Israel. The trip included clergy members and activists — including the chairman of the South Carolina Republican Party — from states with early influence in the presidential primaries.
Some who traveled with Paul, a Methodist, said they engaged in deep conversations with him about the Bible and his faith. Several of the pastors said they are still assessing the senator's views.
"Straight libertarianism has nothing Christian about it," said pastor Brad Sherman of the Solid Rock Christian Church in Coralville, Iowa, a participant in the Israel trip. "I know a lot of people attribute him to be a libertarian. My impression so far is that he's not as libertarian as possibly his father was, but I'd like to explore that more."
Sherman got that chance Friday when he joined other clergy members at the Cedar Rapids lunch to pose pointed questions to Paul. He said he came away liking what he heard. "He made it very clear that he does not support legalization of drugs like marijuana and that he supports traditional marriage," Sherman said.
David Lane, a longtime organizer of evangelical pastors and voters, who orchestrated the Israel trip and the Friday lunch, said Paul was seeking to demonstrate that he can be a comfortable fit for Christian conservatives despite the more unconventional views of many of his most fervent supporters.
"He's closer to our philosophy than he is to what I would define as the hyper-libertarian position," Lane said.
Outlining foreign policy
The Israel trip served a dual purpose, drawing Paul closer to evangelicals, who identify with the Jewish state and push for strengthened U.S. aid to Israel, and giving him a chance to separate his foreign policy views from those of his father, who is a critic of U.S. financial aid to Israel and other countries.
In meetings with Israeli officials and citizen groups, Paul reiterated his support for the country. In a foreign policy address later at the conservative Heritage Foundation, he called for curbing military aid to nations, such as Egypt, where people demonstrate against the United States, part of what he said should be a "more restrained" foreign policy.
Paul's moves on foreign policy are meant to show that he can fit into the GOP mainstream, even though he gained national attention in March with a 13-hour Senate floor filibuster challenging President Obama's drone policies. Paul has also continued to criticize fellow Republicans, who he says are often too willing to dispatch troops and engage in war.
"I'm a realist," he said in his February Heritage Foundation speech, "not a neoconservative, nor an isolationist."
Paul waves off any suggestion that he is seeking to step out from his father's policy shadow.
"Not everybody has a famous family member, but everybody creates their own way as they become an adult," he said. "I'm almost an adult at 50."
Still, Paul's family ties lend clear advantages, giving the senator from Kentucky a built-in national network of energized backers. Ron Paul's campaigns developed effective strategies to mobilize activists, and his organization mastered the art of the "money bomb" to raise large sums online through thousands of small donations.
The advocacy group affiliated with the elder Paul, the Campaign for Liberty, which has an extensive e-mail list and network of supporters, is a stalwart ally of Rand Paul.
The group promoted the #standwithrand Twitter hashtag during Paul's March filibuster. And it stepped in at a touchy moment in April, helping to publicize a clarification issued by the senator after some accused him of backing away from his opposition to the use of drones against American citizens when he told a Fox Business interviewer that "I don't care" if a drone or a police officer kills an armed robber. Paul's statement the next day, posted on the Campaign for Liberty Facebook page with a link to his official Web site, said that his comments "left the mistaken impression that my position on drones had changed. Let me be clear: It has not."
Gearing up for next election
Meanwhile, Paul is moving to shore up his political organization.
His closest political strategist, Doug Stafford, resigned last week as chief of staff at Paul's Senate office, moving to head Rand PAC.
Stafford said in an interview that fundraising and other operations are gearing up, both at Rand PAC and at Paul's 2016 Senate reelection operation. He said the organizations will work aggressively in an area that was not available to the elder Paul, "which is the ability to reach out to high-dollar, traditional fundraising. . . . That's something that we'll be focusing on into next year."
To that end, the senator's Reagan Library trip will include meetings in Silicon Valley with tech industry executives, some of whom see Paul as an ally because of his opposition to Internet taxation and regulation. Paul aides see the tech industry, which heavily backed Obama's campaigns, as a potential source of campaign donations for the senator or other Republicans.
Still, much of Paul's focus through the spring and summer will be on introducing himself to core Republican groups.
His approach was evident in the full access he and his family granted to Christian Broadcasting Network correspondent David Brody and a TV crew at their Bowling Green, Ky., home. The network is popular with evangelical voters, and the appearance offered Paul and his wife, who have three sons, a chance to present themselves as an all-American family.
Kelley talked about her reliance on her faith during difficult times. Rand said he composts "because I care about the environment."
On marriage, a matter in which many libertarians believe the government should have no role, Paul used the CBN interview to lay out a more careful position.
He said he's not ready to "give up on" the traditional family unit. But he added that it is a mistake for conservatives to support a federal ban on same-sex marriage, saying, "We're going to lose that battle because the country is going the other way right now."
"If we're to say each state can decide, I think a good 25 or 30 states still do believe in traditional marriage, and maybe we allow that debate to go on for another couple of decades and see if we can still win back the hearts and minds of people," he said.
Paul said he would take about a year to decide whether to run for president. In the meantime, he said, he is happy to stoke the speculation, if only to give himself a bigger platform.
Meanwhile, Senator Rand Paul wants YOU to stop the UN-loving Obama and his anti-American globalist conspirators in the United Nations from taking YOUR guns with the Small Arms Treaty!
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nagr.org%2Fimages%2FUN_Rand_Message_Header.jpg&hash=ec45cbe57700db08f85b56306045091151425030)
Please sign YOUR Firearms Sovereignty Survey and put YOURSELF squarely on the record AGAINST the UN Gun Ban, derspiess and 11Bravo!
http://www.nagr.org/UN_RP_Survey1b.aspx?pid=sb12a
QuoteOfficial Firearms Sovereignty Survey
1. Do you believe the United States Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Second Amendment are the Supreme Law of the Land?
Yes No Unsure
2. Do you believe that any attempt by the United Nations to Subvert or Supersede your Constitutional Rights must be opposed?
Yes No Unsure
3. Do you oppose the International licensing requirements, International gun registry database and International ban on all private sales that will be included in the UN Gun Ban?
Yes No Unsure
4. Will you vote Against any Senator who votes for the UN Gun Ban?
Yes No Unsure
The National Association for Gun Rights is dedicated to protecting your Second Amendment rights. We will never stop fighting the constant onslaught of anti-gun legislation from Sarah Brady's cronies in Congress -- but overcoming such a well-financed enemy is a difficult battle.
Only YOU and Rand Paul can stop Bangladeshi peacekeepers from taking YOUR guns!
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 12, 2013, 09:53:35 PM
Please sign YOUR Firearms Sovereignty Survey and put YOURSELF squarely on the record AGAINST the UN Gun Ban, derspiess and 11Bravo!
I'd sign it but they might shoot me.
QuoteSen. Rand Paul aggressively courting evangelicals to win over GOP establishment
By Peter Wallsten, Sunday, May 12, 3:31 PM
...and the senator's call for a "spiritual cleansing" in America.
...Paul said he believes in freedom and wants a "virtuous society" where people practice "self-restraint."
Kind of hard to have freedom when you're trying to "cleanse" people.
So now Rand Paul gets a megathread? wtf
:lol: Fucking RP is a lunatic.
only thing that would make it more entertaining would be for him to pick Bachmann as a running mate. Oh, the entertainment.
You are telling us Paul is a lunatic?
There is nothing any more lunatic about anything Paul has said or done than going on about double secret Beghazi coverups.
Quote from: Berkut on May 13, 2013, 01:18:03 AM
You are telling us Paul is a lunatic?
There is nothing any more lunatic about anything Paul has said or done than going on about double secret Beghazi coverups.
Yes. he's a lunatic.
He's your kind of lunatic, you semi-automatic Fruity Pebbles wingnut.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 13, 2013, 01:30:23 AM
He's your kind of lunatic, you semi-automatic Fruity Pebbles wingnut.
Oh, no. None of the Teabaggers are. ;)
Paul is more about money than guns.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 13, 2013, 01:34:53 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 13, 2013, 01:30:23 AM
He's your kind of lunatic, you semi-automatic Fruity Pebbles wingnut.
Oh, no. None of the Teabaggers are. ;)
LIES
I hope someone funny does run.
Bachmann needs to enter the primary race again. Pure psycho gold that one.
I was pretty done with Rand when he visited Howard University and gave an idiotic speech that showed his incredible ignorance of American History. The students at Howard pointed this out which resulted in Rand crying afterwards how this clearly showed all black people are racist and won't let white people talk about history. What a freaking whiner and crybaby. Not to mention, you know, sort of raciss.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 23, 2013, 01:24:40 AM
Bachmann needs to enter the primary race again. Pure psycho gold that one.
Don't worry, she's already ramping up for 2016. She never stopped.
She's not just stupid, she's scary stupid.
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2013, 10:18:27 AM
I was pretty done with Rand when he visited Howard University and gave an idiotic speech that showed his incredible ignorance of American History. The students at Howard pointed this out which resulted in Rand crying afterwards how this clearly showed all black people are racist and won't let white people talk about history. What a freaking whiner and crybaby. Not to mention, you know, sort of raciss.
Wasn't familiar with that. Link?
Quote from: Tyr on May 23, 2013, 12:55:11 AM
I hope someone funny does run.
It's the Republicans. All they got left is funnies.
Quote from: derspiess on May 23, 2013, 02:03:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2013, 10:18:27 AM
I was pretty done with Rand when he visited Howard University and gave an idiotic speech that showed his incredible ignorance of American History. The students at Howard pointed this out which resulted in Rand crying afterwards how this clearly showed all black people are racist and won't let white people talk about history. What a freaking whiner and crybaby. Not to mention, you know, sort of raciss.
Wasn't familiar with that. Link?
:huh: It got a fair bit of coverage, was generally panned even by more right-wing writers (although absolutely beat up by left wing writers). Basically he lectured the students about all the great things Republicans had done for blacks in the past. Party of Lincoln, that sort of thing. Which is audience seemed to be well aware of.
Quote from: derspiess on May 23, 2013, 02:03:23 PM
Wasn't familiar with that.
He talked about George Washington's golden teeth, how Benedict Arnold started the Bank of the United States, and how Democrats oppressed the slaves by paying them in greenbacks. You know, the usual.
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2013, 10:18:27 AM
I was pretty done with Rand when he visited Howard University and gave an idiotic speech that showed his incredible ignorance of American History. The students at Howard pointed this out which resulted in Rand crying afterwards how this clearly showed all black people are racist and won't let white people talk about history. What a freaking whiner and crybaby. Not to mention, you know, sort of raciss.
That made me like him more. I think he was genuinely trying and just didn't quite realise that the students of Howard University know their history. I hope it doesn't put him off.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 26, 2013, 10:34:56 AM
That made me like him more. I think he was genuinely trying and just didn't quite realise that the students of Howard University know their history. I hope it doesn't put him off.
That he not only embarrassed himself with his own ignorance, but openly insulted the student body one of America's premier black universities?
I wonder about you sometimes.
Plenty of people find rand Paul genuinely trying.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 26, 2013, 10:40:31 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 26, 2013, 10:34:56 AM
That made me like him more. I think he was genuinely trying and just didn't quite realise that the students of Howard University know their history. I hope it doesn't put him off.
That he not only embarrassed himself with his own ignorance, but openly insulted the student body one of America's premier black universities?
I wonder about you sometimes.
Yeah what's admirable about patronizing black college students?
Quote from: Jacob on May 26, 2013, 10:42:00 AM
Plenty of people find rand Paul genuinely trying.
Trying to do what, exactly?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 26, 2013, 10:53:09 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 26, 2013, 10:42:00 AM
Plenty of people find rand Paul genuinely trying.
Trying to do what, exactly?
What's the other meaning of that word, sir?
Quote from: garbon on May 26, 2013, 10:45:20 AM
Yeah what's admirable about patronizing black college students?
I don't think that was what he wanted. I think he genuinely wanted to reach out to young black voters, it wasn't all bad. He misjudged his audience, so it didn't work but I hope he carries on because I think it was genuine and I think he has potential. Incidentally I think expectations were higher for him than they would be for any other Republican precisely because he has potential.
It was also, I think, a failed attempt at persuasion. That's miles better than the Republicans who only seek to speak to black audiences to attract the praise of conservative pundits. Romney at the NAACP for example.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 26, 2013, 12:33:51 PM
I don't think that was what he wanted. I think he genuinely wanted to reach out to young black voters, it wasn't all bad. He misjudged his audience, so it didn't work but I hope he carries on because I think it was genuine and I think he has potential.
If that's the case then I don't see how he has potential. It shouldn't come as a surprise that black kids who choose to go to a black university would know their shit about black history. Doesn't take a genius to connect those dots.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 26, 2013, 12:33:51 PMIncidentally I think expectations were higher for him than they would be for any other Republican precisely because he has potential.
Who? Who thinks he has potential?
Quote from: garbon on May 26, 2013, 12:39:46 PM
If that's the case then I don't see how he has potential. It shouldn't come as a surprise that black kids who choose to go to a black university would know their shit about black history. Doesn't take a genius to connect those dots.
Some of them will. Most will know only the bare bones, just like white college kids know history.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 26, 2013, 12:33:51 PM
He misjudged his audience, so it didn't work but I hope he carries on because I think it was genuine and I think he has potential.
He didn't misjudge his audience, he misjudged his basic US history. :lol:
We have to remember: Sheilbh also really liked Huckabee.
I would vote for Rand Paul if he'd end income taxes. :P
I love his hair.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 26, 2013, 10:40:31 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 26, 2013, 10:34:56 AM
That made me like him more. I think he was genuinely trying and just didn't quite realise that the students of Howard University know their history. I hope it doesn't put him off.
That he not only embarrassed himself with his own ignorance, but openly insulted the student body one of America's premier black universities?
I wonder about you sometimes.
I don't. <_<
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 26, 2013, 01:41:37 PM
I love his hair.
No reason to covet something you can easily have.
Quote from: fahdiz on May 26, 2013, 01:31:08 PM
We have to remember: Sheilbh also really liked Huckabee.
You know, for someone who's considered one of the Languish "good guys", e.g. Xiacob, he really has some fucked up tastes when it comes to US politics.
Quote from: The Brain on May 26, 2013, 02:14:01 PM
Quote from: katmai on May 26, 2013, 02:02:33 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 26, 2013, 01:41:37 PM
I love his hair.
No reason to covet something you can easily have.
:blink:
I imagine Katmai standing over Paul's bed at night with a pair of scissors.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 26, 2013, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on May 26, 2013, 01:31:08 PM
We have to remember: Sheilbh also really liked Huckabee.
You know, for someone who's considered one of the Languish "good guys", e.g. Xiacob, he really has some fucked up tastes when it comes to US politics.
Lots of castles are drafty and may have molds.
I'm bringing hairy back.
I'm glad he's now droning on about Obama losing moral authority...
***FLASH***FROM THE "HOLY SHIT YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME" DESK AT THE HOME OFFICE IN CINCINNATI OHIO***FLASH***
QuotePoll: Rand Paul Tops List of 2016 GOP Presidential Hopefuls
Sen. Rand Paul has surged into the lead of a wide field of possible 2016 GOP presidential hopefuls, according to a new poll, while Sen. Marco Rubio has dropped from first place to sixth.
According to the Public Policy Polling survey conducted July 19-21, the junior senator from Kentucky leads every other candidate with 16 percent support, his highest since the April survey.
Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, and Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan are all at 13 percent, in the survey of 800 registered voters, while Texas Rep. Ted Cruz comes in at 12 percent.
Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, once at the top of the list, now has only 10 percent support, a significant decrease from the 21 percent support he had in the April poll.
"The trend in the Republican primary field is pretty clear," said Dean Debnam, president of Public Policy Polling. "Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are up and Marco Rubio is down."
In the general election, the poll found that while former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in the lead against every potential GOP candidate, those leads are narrowing.
In a match-up with Christie, her lead is within the margin of error, with Clinton at 43 percent and Christie at 42 percent.
Ryan, meanwhile, would also come in a close second against Clinton. Forty-six percent of respondents would support Clinton while 44 percent would go for Ryan. Clinton also narrowly leads Bush, 46 percent to 44 percent.
The poll also found that in a Democratic presidential primary, Clinton is the clear front-runner with 52 percent support compared to 12 percent who would back Vice President Joe Biden, though Biden would have a 21 percent lead over every other potential candidate if Clinton didn't run.
Way to early. But, I would vote for the "Lunatic" over the "Sea Hag", for no particular reason and just to raise your blood pressure. :lol:
That wide feel looks pretty shitty.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 25, 2013, 07:04:40 PM
***FLASH***FROM THE "HOLY SHIT YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME" DESK AT THE HOME OFFICE IN CINCINNATI OHIO***FLASH***
QuotePoll: Rand Paul Tops List of 2016 GOP Presidential Hopefuls
Sen. Rand Paul has surged into the lead of a wide field of possible 2016 GOP presidential hopefuls, according to a new poll, while Sen. Marco Rubio has dropped from first place to sixth.
According to the Public Policy Polling survey conducted July 19-21, the junior senator from Kentucky leads every other candidate with 16 percent support, his highest since the April survey.
Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, and Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan are all at 13 percent, in the survey of 800 registered voters, while Texas Rep. Ted Cruz comes in at 12 percent.
Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, once at the top of the list, now has only 10 percent support, a significant decrease from the 21 percent support he had in the April poll.
"The trend in the Republican primary field is pretty clear," said Dean Debnam, president of Public Policy Polling. "Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are up and Marco Rubio is down."
In the general election, the poll found that while former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in the lead against every potential GOP candidate, those leads are narrowing.
In a match-up with Christie, her lead is within the margin of error, with Clinton at 43 percent and Christie at 42 percent.
Ryan, meanwhile, would also come in a close second against Clinton. Forty-six percent of respondents would support Clinton while 44 percent would go for Ryan. Clinton also narrowly leads Bush, 46 percent to 44 percent.
The poll also found that in a Democratic presidential primary, Clinton is the clear front-runner with 52 percent support compared to 12 percent who would back Vice President Joe Biden, though Biden would have a 21 percent lead over every other potential candidate if Clinton didn't run.
I stand with Rand.
Rand Paul versus Joe Biden in 2016! :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 26, 2013, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on May 26, 2013, 01:31:08 PM
We have to remember: Sheilbh also really liked Huckabee.
You know, for someone who's considered one of the Languish "good guys", e.g. Xiacob, he really has some fucked up tastes when it comes to US politics.
I have a feeling that Sheilbh is just a contrarian, conflating being an unconventional thinker for the sake of it with being an insightful thinker. I don't think it's limited to US politics either.
Quote from: Valmy on July 26, 2013, 08:21:11 AM
Rand Paul versus Joe Biden in 2016! :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-QYsLkBvHR4U%2FT93Ap7BJaBI%2FAAAAAAAAAAk%2FNltcdbpZMlA%2Fs1600%2FDumb%252Band%252BDumber%252B2%252BMovie.jpg&hash=62dd556c93306572e83163b9f94c7094672807c8)
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2013, 08:39:00 AM
I have a feeling that Sheilbh is just a contrarian, conflating being an unconventional thinker for the sake of it with being an insightful thinker. I don't think it's limited to US politics either.
Harsh :o
I don't think I'm that contrarian and I know I barely think, I just don't hate people very often. I can disagree with people very strongly and still find them a compelling or attractive person. That's how it is with Huckabee, I don't agree with him, but I think he's hinted at a sort of conservative populism that's an important voice and one that deserves to be heard - same with Farage in this country or lefties like Barney Frank. Also I think there are times when political antipathy towards someone becomes a torrent of personal abuse that I find wrong - it happened to Palin and, in this country, it happened to Brown.
The politicians I react against are the ones where I think the flaws are personal not political. It's not that I disagree with them it's that I think there's something up with them as people: Edwards, Romney, Gingrich and, to an extent, the Clintons.
But my views are still Blairite, investment and reform in the welfare state, strong defence and security and liberalisation. They're all mainstream centre-left views. The only other thing is I hate snobbishness and arrogance, which is the vibe a lot of American liberal sites give off - like the Guardian but with more entitlement :P
QuoteWho? Who thinks he has potential?
I'd forgotten about this but I basically agree with this piece from the time by Ta-Nehisi Coates in the Atlantic:
QuoteThe Journey to Mecca
Rand Paul deserves credit for speaking at Howard University. But one reason the reaction has been critical is that black liberals have high expectations for him.
TA-NEHISI COATESAPR 15 2013, 9:07 AM ET
Reason has a good video up looking at the cross-section of opinion which followed Rand Paul's visit to Howard University. (With Chad Bozeman out there doing work, it's a good time to be a Bison.) I offered some of my own thoughts on Friday's All In With Chris Hayes. Here are a few more.
1.) I've gone back and forth on this but I think Rand Paul deserves credit. These sorts of speeches are often done by conservatives as a way of signaling to moderate whites that they aren't racist. The Mitt Romney show at the 2012 NAACP convention is the best example.
I think Paul's was different. I can't remember a potential Republican presidential candidate standing before a group of black students like that and actually taking questions. And these were not plants. Paul got the full brunt of a school where black history and politics are the air.
2.) Someone should have told Rand Paul he was going to a school where black history and politics are the air. At a university founded by prominent 19th-century Republicans, where every student is subject to an African-American (studies, lit, history, etc.) requirement, you can not hope to surprise them with "Famous Black Republican Facts." They know this. And anyone so moved to attend a Rand Paul speech at Howard will almost certainly know it better than Rand Paul. (Edward Brooke!)
3.) The lack of someones is particularly telling. It's not so much that Rand Paul is a Republican that matters, its his obvious lack of either good African-American advisers, or advisors who simply cared enough to do some recon. Someone who knew Howard could have told him that he was walking into a lion's den. This is the real and hard value of diversity, an area where, for at least the next decade, Dems will enjoy an advantage. They are better are talking to diverse audiences simply because they've had more practice. This isn't mission impossible. But to be good at talking to black people, you must talk to black people.
4.) This should not be a series of "speeches." Paul should go back to Howard and sit in on a couple of classes. He should just sit there and listen. I know he's a busy guy, but there is so much there that he clearly doesn't know. If he can't do it, he should send someone to do it. Better, he should hire a couple of smart kids out of Howard's poli-sci department who are sympathetic to his politics. (They are there.)
5.) Paul's answer to the Civil Rights Act question was deeply damaging. Nothing he did there hurt him more than outright lying. This is 2013. All these kids need do is google Rand Paul and Civil Rights Act to see what Paul actually said. It would be like Obama announcing his support for marriage equality, by claiming he'd always supported it. The worst part is he didn't even have to lie. A simple "I've learned a few things since becoming a senator" would have sufficed. Unforced error. Again, no one around Paul to say, "It's Howard. A third of SNCC went here. You are going to get this question. You must have a good answer."
6.) If you are a libertarian and dismayed by the largely critical reaction to Paul's speech, you should understand that much of it is because black liberals, like me, actually expect more of Rand Paul than we expected of Mitt Romney. Again, a lot of us have family whose politics are not very different from Rand Paul's. These are people who don't like foreign wars, who don't like our incarceration rates, and don't like our deficit.
These people are not me. But the fact that we end up voting for the same guy is a distortion of democracy. We deserve to fight it out. Having that fight doesn't require the GOP to fully embrace Obamacare. It requires the GOP to stop attempting to limit the number of people who are voting, and start competing for them. At this moment, the GOP has a choice. It can embrace the "Gifts" logic of Mitt Romney which holds that black people will never vote for a Republican, or it can make a pitch and compete.
Rand Paul -- skeptical of foreign war, skeptical of the drug war, skeptical of mass incarceration -- is the most credible Republican to make that pitch. We don't have any expectations for Steve King. Paul is different, and is being judged accordingly. You don't get to do something striking and courageous (like Paul's actual filibuster) and get judged by the standards of cowards.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 26, 2013, 03:20:38 PM
I can disagree with people very strongly and still find them a compelling or attractive person.
:hmm: As I said, an unconventional thinker.
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2013, 08:39:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 26, 2013, 08:21:11 AM
Rand Paul versus Joe Biden in 2016! :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-QYsLkBvHR4U%2FT93Ap7BJaBI%2FAAAAAAAAAAk%2FNltcdbpZMlA%2Fs1600%2FDumb%252Band%252BDumber%252B2%252BMovie.jpg&hash=62dd556c93306572e83163b9f94c7094672807c8)
Spot on
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 26, 2013, 03:20:38 PM
I can disagree with people very strongly and still find them a compelling or attractive person.
:hmm: As I said, an unconventional thinker.
I do that too, I don't think its that unusual.
I changed my voter registration today to swing state North Carolina :) ; will later decide to be registered Democrat or Republican for next state primary depending on competitiveness.
Ten thousand dogs roam the streets as ten thousand junkies lie in the gutter in the shadows of the ruined shell of ruined factories. As the maelstrom of violence and the maelstrom of want engulfs the broken city only one man stands up against the bleak and forlorn future that awaits:Quote
Senator cites Detroit's bankruptcy as reason to deny aid to Egypt
Rand Paul
By Todd Spangler
Detroit Free Press Washington Staff
WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. Rand Paul cited Detroit's problems — blight, bankruptcy and crime — as a prime reason for denying government aid to Egypt.
Paul, R-Ky., offered an amendment to the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development spending bill today calling for $1.3 billion in aid to Egypt to be redirected to bridge repairs and infrastructure replacement in the U.S.
The amendment was tabled on an 86-13 vote with many Republicans voting against — and speaking out against — Paul's position, saying foreign aid is necessary to strengthen strategic allies around the globe. The vote to table the measure effectively stripped any chance it had of being attached to the bill.
Although the subect was foreign aid, Paul began his speech by invoking the situation in Detroit, saying tens of thousands of dogs roam the streets in a city blighted with abandoned houses at a time when the U.S. is sending billions of dollars overseas in foreign aid.
"It is a bleak and forlorn future that awaits Detroit," said Paul, who also mentioned what he called a "maelstrom of violence" in Chicago that should be dealt with instead of spending on foreign aid.
In his remarks, Paul made no mention of specifically dedicating any funds to Detroit, Chicago, or any city, but said the funds now going to Egypt should instead be used to repair bridges in critical conditions across the U.S.
But he said Detroit's situation is a stark example of the issues here in America that are not being dealt with as money continues to go overseas.
"As Detroit decays, as Chicago's overrun with violence, as Americans struggle," he asked President Barack Obama rhetorically, "why are you sending money to people who hate us?"
From the early remarks, it appeared from the outset that the amendment would have a hard time of passage. Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla., spoke against it, saying he "didn't believe we should be bailing out cities," even though the amendment doesn't call for that. U.S. Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., noted there is "nothing in this amendment (that) suggests that cutting all aid to Egypt means putting that money into the cities of America like Detroit."
As the Free Press reported last week, Detroit's bankruptcy filing — the largest municipal filing in U.S. history — has become a political football. Several Republican senators are suggesting amendments that would prohibit a bailout, and potentially limit other forms of financial aid, to Detroit or any other city in severe fiscal straits, even though Detroit officials haven't requested a bailout.
I like Rand Paul, his oratory reminds me of Spiro T. Agnew. :)
he he
I thought we had a treaty obligation to give that money every year to Egypt. Wasn't that the bribe for Sadat to sign Camp David?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 31, 2013, 04:15:32 PM
he he
I thought we had a treaty obligation to give that money every year to Egypt. Wasn't that the bribe for Sadat to sign Camp David?
I thought so too. But then why is it important whether we call a coup a coup?
Quote from: DGuller on July 31, 2013, 04:18:58 PM
I thought so too. But then why is it important whether we call a coup a coup?
Huh?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 31, 2013, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 31, 2013, 04:18:58 PM
I thought so too. But then why is it important whether we call a coup a coup?
Huh?
I've been hearing that if US recognizes the removal of Morsi as a coup, then Egypt loses the monetary payments from US. We're still investigating what it was. :hmm:
Quote from: DGuller on July 31, 2013, 04:33:49 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 31, 2013, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 31, 2013, 04:18:58 PM
I thought so too. But then why is it important whether we call a coup a coup?
Huh?
I've been hearing that if US recognizes the removal of Morsi as a coup, then Egypt loses the monetary payments from US. We're still investigating what it was. :hmm:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/2013/07/27/analysis-stand-egypt-coup-may-have-costs/HDKfDjpdLg6FvJJs9ysYmN/story.html
Quote''The law does not require us to make a formal determination ... as to whether a coup took place, and it is not in our national interest to make such a determination,'' State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Friday. She spoke in the administration's only on-camera news briefing a day after members of Congress were informed privately that the U.S. laws was no longer necessarily applicable.
That interpretation of the 1961 Foreign Assistance Act might come as a surprise to juntas and militaries in Mali, Madagascar, Honduras and Pakistan. All of them, and others, have coped with U.S. aid suspensions over the past decade or so because of coups. In each case, there was a presumption that the United States would make a coup determination based on the law, and it did.
The law allows aid to resume only once a democratically elected government is restored. Exceptions have been made before, notably in the case of Pakistan.
Aid to Pakistan was suspended in 1999 when Army chief Pervez Musharraf ousted then-Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, now back in the job, in a bloodless coup. The assistance was restored by an act of Congress in 2001 for national security reasons before democracy returned after the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.
Psaki would or could not say why the administration had decided against such a solution in the case of Egypt, clearly a vital American ally in the Middle East.
But such a fix would have required a determination that the Egyptian army had ousted President Mohammed Morsi in coup, and that step would have triggered a suspension in the $1.5 billion in aid the U.S. provides each year. Of that, $1.3 billion goes to the military.
Missed it. I guess what happened to Morsi's government is fated to be one of those unsolved mysteries.
Chicago is overrun with violence?
It's a shame. I think the US probably should cut aid to Egypt.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 31, 2013, 05:10:35 PM
Chicago is overrun with violence?
Yes, it is. Cubs fans :rolleyes:
Quote from: derspiess on July 31, 2013, 06:31:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 31, 2013, 05:10:35 PM
Chicago is overrun with violence?
Yes, it is. Cubs fans :rolleyes:
Fair. Wrigleyville is like a portal unto hell.
Our own Cal is there as we speak.
It is true though. Whenever I walked too far west of boystown is was like what is this garish place full of ruffians?
Mobs armed with Deep dish pizzas storm the strongholds of thin crust pizza.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 31, 2013, 07:20:06 PM
Mobs armed with Deep dish pizzas storm the strongholds of thin crust pizza.
I support this.
They all look like Jim Belushi.
I liked McCain saying it'd be a toss up for him if it came down to Hillary vs Rand.
Paul better watch it or Governor Hungry Heart's going to wipe his ass with that cutesy pie perm of his.
Meh, it's 2013. Let them fight it out.
Quote from: DGuller on July 31, 2013, 04:41:44 PM
Missed it. I guess what happened to Morsi's government is fated to be one of those unsolved mysteries.
So it'll end up on a weeknight History Channel show with Leonard Nimoy taking an hour to say "we don't know what happened?" :hmm:
Quote from: derspiess on July 31, 2013, 10:24:14 PM
Meh, it's 2013. Let them fight it out.
Yeah, some early jockeying for position and trying to score some points, as always happens in political races.
Soon it will be Dems bashing on each other too, with maybe as Joe "back porch shotgun" Biden goes at it with Democrat heir apparent Hillary "stand by your man" Clinton. ;)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 31, 2013, 09:54:28 PM
Paul better watch it or Governor Hungry Heart's going to wipe his ass with that cutesy pie perm of his.
I, for one, look forward to having the heftiest President since Taft.
Christie: UNDO MY GASTRIC BAND
Wanna know how we feel about Christie here in Jersey? Just about any Letterman bit where he riffs on Christie is about right. The man's 50% full of hot air, 50% full of Dairy Queen.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 01, 2013, 07:40:06 PM
Wanna know how we feel about Christie here in Jersey? Just about any Letterman bit where he riffs on Christie is about right. The man's 50% full of hot air, 50% full of Dairy Queen.
Yeah, even for a distant spectator, Christie's act is worn out, so I can only imagine how it feels to a New Joisian. But the dude trafficks in the truth. And cookies.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 01, 2013, 07:43:08 PM
Yeah, even for a distant spectator, Christie's act is worn out, so I can only imagine how it feels to a New Joisian. But the dude trafficks in the truth. And cookies.
Also, think putting Christie in the White House would help get shit done in DC? The dude's super-veto-happy.
The other party controls the legislature, you gotta expect lots of vetoes when that's the case.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 01, 2013, 07:48:14 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 01, 2013, 07:43:08 PM
Yeah, even for a distant spectator, Christie's act is worn out, so I can only imagine how it feels to a New Joisian. But the dude trafficks in the truth. And cookies.
Also, think putting Christie in the White House would help get shit done in DC? The dude's super-veto-happy.
I stopped worrying about shit getting done in DC in November 2008.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 01, 2013, 08:13:45 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 01, 2013, 07:48:14 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 01, 2013, 07:43:08 PM
Yeah, even for a distant spectator, Christie's act is worn out, so I can only imagine how it feels to a New Joisian. But the dude trafficks in the truth. And cookies.
Also, think putting Christie in the White House would help get shit done in DC? The dude's super-veto-happy.
I stopped worrying about shit getting done in DC in November 2008.
True. Obama a'int done much of nothing.
RAWR THAT WAS A GOOD'UN CLETUS
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 01, 2013, 10:34:47 PM
RAWR THAT WAS A GOOD'UN CLETUS
You know, I wouldn't think a ploy where you block everything someone does and then claim they aren't getting anything done would actually work, but it does.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 01, 2013, 10:44:57 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 01, 2013, 10:34:47 PM
RAWR THAT WAS A GOOD'UN CLETUS
You know, I wouldn't think a ploy where you block everything someone does and then claim they aren't getting anything done would actually work, but it does.
When the audience you are playing to shares a small number of brain cells you can do all sorts of silly things.
Yes, Seedy is rather silly sometimes.
QuoteRand Paul wants to restore felons' voting rights
By Aaron Blake, washingtonpost.com
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Monday that he will work to restore the voting rights of convicted felons who have completed their sentences.
More from the Louisville Courier-Journal:
Speaking at a community center in western Louisville, Paul said laws should be changed to make it easier for felons to regain their rights to vote at both the state and federal levels.
Short of that, he suggested that "Class D" felonies for crimes like drug possession and non-payment of child support should be reclassified to misdemeanors so those who are convicted wouldn't lose their voting rights in the first place.
Paul said a third of adult black men are convicted felons and that restoring their voting rights is the most important thing government can do to make sure people's voting rights are protected.
Felon voting rights aren't exactly the issue du jour in Congress, but state lawmakers in Kentucky have proposed allowing convicted felons to vote after they've served their sentences -- something most states allow.
An automated poll earlier this year showed Kentuckians approved of that idea by a 51-38 margin.
Generally, though, Democrats are more in favor of allowing felons to vote while Republicans oppose the idea.
Paul has also pushed to get rid of mandatory minimum sentences for drug offenses, arguing that they disproportionately impact minorities and clog the jail system.
Quote from: sbr on August 02, 2013, 12:09:58 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 01, 2013, 10:44:57 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 01, 2013, 10:34:47 PM
RAWR THAT WAS A GOOD'UN CLETUS
You know, I wouldn't think a ploy where you block everything someone does and then claim they aren't getting anything done would actually work, but it does.
When the audience you are playing to shares a small number of brain cells you can do all sorts of silly things.
I wonder if it will still be convincing when the shoe is on the other foot.
See this is the side of Rand Paul I love. And he's right on both points.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 18, 2013, 08:52:20 PM
See this is the side of Rand Paul I love. And he's right on both points.
Yeah, but for everything he has a good idea for, he's got a shitty idea somewhere else.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 18, 2013, 08:54:19 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 18, 2013, 08:52:20 PM
See this is the side of Rand Paul I love. And he's right on both points.
Yeah, but for everything he has a good idea for, he's got a shitty idea somewhere else.
Better 1:1 than 0:10 like most other Republicans.
Quote from: Habbaku on September 18, 2013, 11:58:11 PM
Better 1:1 than 0:10 like most other Republicans.
Yes, let's return felon voting rights, but pull out of NATO. Swell.
Quote from: Habbaku on September 18, 2013, 11:58:11 PM
Better 1:1 than 0:10 like most other Republicans.
To be honest I think a lot of best ideas from current Republicans are coming from the right. Ross Douthat made this point recently, but Lee on tax, Vitter on banks and Paul on civil liberties etc. I may not agree with their ideas but unlike every other Republican idea since Reagan they're new and they're interesting. It's nice to see people stepping out with something new.
I also think it's the direction Republicans need to head and could provide the backbone to their populism. It's exactly what populist conservatism should look like - lower taxes (but not mentalist tax cuts) especially for the middle class and hostile to big business and big government.
Gold bugs FTW?
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 19, 2013, 12:11:10 AM
Lee on tax, Vitter on banks and Paul on civil liberties etc. I may not agree with their ideas but unlike every other Republican idea since Reagan they're new and they're interesting.
They aren't new at all.
What does make them distinctive is that they are bipartisan.
Okay. At least they're policies not just slogans.
But for a party that primaried someone like Bennett for insufficient conservatism and working with Wyden on health reform bipartisanship in itself is an interesting shift, especially when it includes his ouster.
If nothing else that combo makes them seem new and refreshing in today's Republican party.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 19, 2013, 12:11:10 AM
(but not mentalist tax cuts)
Mentalists have always been problematic in all gaming settings. I agree they should not be encouraged with generous tax breaks.
A two-fer: Cruz y Paul!
QuoteAfter Iowa, Ted Cruz heading to South Carolina
By: Katie Glueck
October 29, 2013 11:21 AM EDT
Sen. Ted Cruz, the tea party darling and possible 2016 candidate, is headed to another early primary state next week.
Cruz (R-Texas) will held to South Carolina for a policy briefing with pastors on Nov. 4, his spokeswoman confirmed. That follows an appearance he made last weekend in Iowa.
The event, slated to occur at a hotel in Columbia, S.C., is hosted by the South Carolina Renewal Project, a Christian organization. Sen. Tim Scott (R-S.C.) is also listed as a speaker on an invitation for the event.
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), another potential presidential contender, is also expected in South Carolina next month. He is slated to appear at an event at Charleston's posh Harbour Club on Nov. 11.
According to an invitation obtained by POLITICO, Paul will also be at a meet-and-greet that day. For the first session, limited to 20 people, tickets start at $3,000 per person and $5,000 a couple. Tickets for a second general session start at $250 a person.
"Meet Senator Rand Paul. MD (R-KY)," the invitation reads. "A champion for constitutional liberties, fiscal responsibility and a warrior against government overreach who will be discussing Healthcare and other issues facing our country."
A "policy briefing with pastors". Talk about tits on a bull.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 29, 2013, 03:08:31 PM
A two-fer: Cruz y Paul!
QuoteAfter Iowa, Ted Cruz heading to South Carolina
By: Katie Glueck
October 29, 2013 11:21 AM EDT
Sen. Ted Cruz, the tea party darling and possible 2016 candidate, is headed to another early primary state next week.
Cruz (R-Texas) will held to South Carolina for a policy briefing with pastors on Nov. 4, his spokeswoman confirmed. That follows an appearance he made last weekend in Iowa.
The event, slated to occur at a hotel in Columbia, S.C., is hosted by the South Carolina Renewal Project, a Christian organization. Sen. Tim Scott (R-S.C.) is also listed as a speaker on an invitation for the event.
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), another potential presidential contender, is also expected in South Carolina next month. He is slated to appear at an event at Charleston's posh Harbour Club on Nov. 11.
According to an invitation obtained by POLITICO, Paul will also be at a meet-and-greet that day. For the first session, limited to 20 people, tickets start at $3,000 per person and $5,000 a couple. Tickets for a second general session start at $250 a person.
"Meet Senator Rand Paul. MD (R-KY)," the invitation reads. "A champion for constitutional liberties, fiscal responsibility and a warrior against government overreach who will be discussing Healthcare and other issues facing our country."
A "policy briefing with pastors". Talk about tits on a bull.
No shit.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/05/AR2010040505745.html
That's different, dercracka. That's meeting with the President of the United States of America. Hell, even Girl Scouts do that.
Rand Paul and the Last Cruzade.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 29, 2013, 03:57:57 PM
That's different, dercracka. That's meeting with the President of the United States of America. Hell, even Girl Scouts do that.
So are you saying that Obama wasn't relevant enough before that for a group of pastors to want to chat with him?
Quote from: garbon on October 29, 2013, 04:03:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 29, 2013, 03:57:57 PM
That's different, dercracka. That's meeting with the President of the United States of America. Hell, even Girl Scouts do that.
So are you saying that Obama wasn't relevant enough before that for a group of pastors to want to chat with him?
Considering all the shit he caught from the Teabaggers and FOX for being seen with a certain black Chicago pastor before his election, as the President's advisor, I'd have counseled against meeting any more of
those people, since that sort of thing sets off true-blue, redblooded white voters like derweiß.
Hell, meeting with the Taliban would be the safer pick.
OH WAIT ITS BEEN DONE
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Reagan_sitting_with_people_from_the_Afghanistan-Pakistan_region_in_February_1983.jpg)
That meeting was all Haig's fault.
God that room must have stunk for WEEKS after that meeting. :bleeding:
True. Not to mention vacuuming the sand out of the carpet. You never get rid of all of it :(
Who let the chick whore in the room?
For having an opinion, she was executed later that day at RFK. :(
Quote from: Caliga on October 29, 2013, 04:24:33 PM
For having an opinion, she was executed later that day at RFK. :(
Damn, I knew that Reagan was against the ERA, but goes a little to far.
Quote from: derspiess on October 29, 2013, 04:17:44 PM
That meeting was all Haig's fault.
They are fellow anti-communist religious conservatives.
Quote from: Caliga on October 29, 2013, 04:21:51 PM
God that room must have stunk for WEEKS after that meeting. :bleeding:
:lol:
SMELLS LIKE FEET
AND SAFFRON FARTS
Busted AND hostile! What a great combo!
QuoteMore evidence emerges of plagiarism in Rand Paul's work
By Rebecca Kaplan /CBS News
Reports continue to emerge that Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., has a habit of using other authors' work in his own speeches and writings without giving them credit. The latest: an op-ed Paul wrote for The Washington Times on mandatory minimum sentencing borrowed verbatim from an article on the same topic written by Dan Stewart and published in The Week a week before Paul's own piece.
The overlap was originally reported by the website Buzzfeed, which found several copied sentences that outline the growth of the prison system, criticism of mandatory minimum sentencing, and tell the story of a Florida man named John Horner who was subject to a mandatory minimum penalty after selling some prescription painkillers to a friend who turned out to be a police informant.
"We've always known that the audience of The Week consists of smart, busy people who want to feel even smarter, including a lot of people on Capitol Hill," Bill Falk, the editor in chief of The Week, told Buzzfeed. "We'd like to thank Sen. Paul for his endorsement."
In an interview with the New York Times Tuesday, Paul admitted that he had "made mistakes" and said new procedures were being put in place to make footnotes available "if it will make people leave me the hell alone."
"In the thousands of speeches and op-eds Sen. Paul has produced, he has always presented his own ideas, opinions and conclusions. Sen. Paul also relies on a large number of staff and advisers to provide supporting facts and anecdotes - some of which were not clearly sourced or vetted properly," said Paul senior adviser Doug Stafford in a statement to CBSNews.com. "Footnotes presenting supporting facts were not always used. Going forward, footnotes will be available on request. There have also been occasions where quotations or typesetting indentations have been left out through errors in our approval process. From here forward, quoting, footnoting and citing will be more complete. Adherence to a new approval process implemented by Sen. Paul will ensure proper citation and accountability in all collaborative works going forward."
Paul also told the Times that no staffers were being fired over the incidents of plagiarism.
Paul has been under fire for borrowing language since MSNBC's Rachel Maddow :wub: accused him of citing Wikipedia descriptions of the movie "Gattaca" :wub: during a speech at Liberty University :yuk:. Since then, the list of language copied from other sources has continued to grow, including the revelation that Paul's response to President Obama's 2013 State of the Union address included a line about increasing unemployment rates taken directly from an Associated Press report.
"It's been a footnote frenzy going on. They have looked at my works including all of my speeches which 98 percent of those are extemporaneous. I can't quote everything perfect. I'm not perfect," Paul said to Fox News host Sean Hannity Monday night, arguing that he was the only person being held to such a high standard because of political motivations.
In an interview with ABC's "This Week" after the allegations came to light, Paul said he didn't think that speeches should be held to the same standard as scientific papers.
"When I wrote scientific papers, I sometimes had statements with eight footnotes for one sentence. Is that what you want me to do for my speeches? If it's required, I'll do it. But I think I'm being unfairly targeted by a bunch of hacks and haters. And I'm just not going to put up with people casting aspersions on my character," Paul said.
He added that "if dueling were legal in Kentucky, if they keep it up, you know, it would be a duel challenge. But I can't do that, because I can't hold office in Kentucky then."
I'm going to miss all those Biden plagiarism cracks from derfootnotes.
How can a person use :wub: for Rachel Maddow? That's like a declaration of hating yourself.
She's a dreamboat of investigative journalism. :P
Dreamboat = sad skiff? ;)
Also, true, what hard hitting journalism.
Jesus, doesn't Paul know that all you have to do is put in the suspect bit of something into Google to find out the Wiki source?
He is no better than my freshmen.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 10:01:06 PM
She's a dreamboat of investigative journalism. :P
:huh: She's never done any investigative journalism.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 09:48:08 PM
I'm going to miss all those Biden plagiarism cracks from derfootnotes.
:huh:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 05, 2013, 10:19:37 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 10:01:06 PM
She's a dreamboat of investigative journalism. :P
:huh: She's never done any investigative journalism.
Of course she has. You just haven't been paying attention.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 10:24:38 PM
Of course she has. You just haven't been paying attention.
Of course she hasn't. You just strung together words that sounded good to you.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 05, 2013, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 10:24:38 PM
Of course she has. You just haven't been paying attention.
Of course she hasn't. You just strung together words that sounded good to you.
This conversation is over.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 10:28:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 05, 2013, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 10:24:38 PM
Of course she has. You just haven't been paying attention.
Of course she hasn't. You just strung together words that sounded good to you.
This conversation is over.
You just did it again.
It's my bubble, dammit. I don't tell you want you want to hear in yours.
Is plagiarism actually a big deal anymore? It's not like anybody is actually bringing any new ideas to the table, so what difference does it make?
Quote from: Neil on November 05, 2013, 10:31:58 PM
Is plagiarism actually a big deal anymore? It's not like anybody is actually bringing any new ideas to the table, so what difference does it make?
It's indicative of character, honesty and moral strength.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 10:32:52 PM
Quote from: Neil on November 05, 2013, 10:31:58 PM
Is plagiarism actually a big deal anymore? It's not like anybody is actually bringing any new ideas to the table, so what difference does it make?
It's indicative of character, honesty and moral strength.
Really? Didn't realize your opinion of MLK was that low :mellow:
Quote from: derspiess on November 05, 2013, 10:34:29 PM
Really? Didn't realize your opinion of MLK was that low :mellow:
Then you and Uncle Ccooter should go back up the pick-up truck and pull down his statue, Cletus.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 10:39:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 05, 2013, 10:34:29 PM
Really? Didn't realize your opinion of MLK was that low :mellow:
Then you and Uncle Ccooter should go back up the pick-up truck and pull down his statue, Cletus.
Hey man, I'm not the one diminishing the content of his character-- you are.
Oooh, burn.
Plagiarism in a dissertation paper in college is the best you can do? Nigga, please. You can pull that play out of the Redneck Playbook, doesn't really have much weight outside your circlejerk.
Guess what? He cheated on his wife, too. BFD, Jr.
You just can't resist tearing him down, can you?
:lol:
What do you care, he got ventilated by a racist cracker. As far as you're concerned, it's a happy ending.
I greatly admire MLK's legacy. Never said otherwise.
Obviously not a big fan of his college work.
Quote from: derspiess on November 05, 2013, 10:52:52 PM
I greatly admire MLK's legacy. Never said otherwise.
Even the anti-war stuff? The "paling around" with communists?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 09:47:57 PM
Busted AND hostile! What a great combo!
QuoteMore evidence emerges of plagiarism in Rand Paul's work
By Rebecca Kaplan /CBS News
Reports continue to emerge that Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., has a habit of using other authors' work in his own speeches and writings without giving them credit. The latest: an op-ed Paul wrote for The Washington Times on mandatory minimum sentencing borrowed verbatim from an article on the same topic written by Dan Stewart and published in The Week a week before Paul's own piece.
The overlap was originally reported by the website Buzzfeed, which found several copied sentences that outline the growth of the prison system, criticism of mandatory minimum sentencing, and tell the story of a Florida man named John Horner who was subject to a mandatory minimum penalty after selling some prescription painkillers to a friend who turned out to be a police informant.
"We've always known that the audience of The Week consists of smart, busy people who want to feel even smarter, including a lot of people on Capitol Hill," Bill Falk, the editor in chief of The Week, told Buzzfeed. "We'd like to thank Sen. Paul for his endorsement."
In an interview with the New York Times Tuesday, Paul admitted that he had "made mistakes" and said new procedures were being put in place to make footnotes available "if it will make people leave me the hell alone."
"In the thousands of speeches and op-eds Sen. Paul has produced, he has always presented his own ideas, opinions and conclusions. Sen. Paul also relies on a large number of staff and advisers to provide supporting facts and anecdotes - some of which were not clearly sourced or vetted properly," said Paul senior adviser Doug Stafford in a statement to CBSNews.com. "Footnotes presenting supporting facts were not always used. Going forward, footnotes will be available on request. There have also been occasions where quotations or typesetting indentations have been left out through errors in our approval process. From here forward, quoting, footnoting and citing will be more complete. Adherence to a new approval process implemented by Sen. Paul will ensure proper citation and accountability in all collaborative works going forward."
Paul also told the Times that no staffers were being fired over the incidents of plagiarism.
Paul has been under fire for borrowing language since MSNBC's Rachel Maddow :wub: accused him of citing Wikipedia descriptions of the movie "Gattaca" :wub: during a speech at Liberty University :yuk: . Since then, the list of language copied from other sources has continued to grow, including the revelation that Paul's response to President Obama's 2013 State of the Union address included a line about increasing unemployment rates taken directly from an Associated Press report.
"It's been a footnote frenzy going on. They have looked at my works including all of my speeches which 98 percent of those are extemporaneous. I can't quote everything perfect. I'm not perfect," Paul said to Fox News host Sean Hannity Monday night, arguing that he was the only person being held to such a high standard because of political motivations.
In an interview with ABC's "This Week" after the allegations came to light, Paul said he didn't think that speeches should be held to the same standard as scientific papers.
"When I wrote scientific papers, I sometimes had statements with eight footnotes for one sentence. Is that what you want me to do for my speeches? If it's required, I'll do it. But I think I'm being unfairly targeted by a bunch of hacks and haters. And I'm just not going to put up with people casting aspersions on my character," Paul said.
He added that "if dueling were legal in Kentucky, if they keep it up, you know, it would be a duel challenge. But I can't do that, because I can't hold office in Kentucky then."
Oh, it's not really a big deal. I mean, he probably didn't right any of the book. Like how his dad didn't actually write those newsletters with his name on them.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 05, 2013, 10:58:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 05, 2013, 10:52:52 PM
I greatly admire MLK's legacy. Never said otherwise.
Even the anti-war stuff?
Not that so much. But that's a very minor part of his legacy.
Quote
The "paling around" with communists?
Paling with commies was even less a part of it.
lol, "Computer Quarterback". Had that one. Did you ever have "Super Sunday" from Avalon Hill? That was actually pretty good for its time.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.retrogamesshop.com%2Fimages%2Fproduct_images%2Finfo_images%2Fimg_9217.jpg&hash=a45254dd748e05e7b7868b90222bb0c403034cd9)
It was only Super Bowl match-ups, but it was pretty fun.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
lol, "Computer Quarterback". Had that one. Did you ever have "Super Sunday" from Avalon Hill? That was actually pretty good for its time.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.retrogamesshop.com%2Fimages%2Fproduct_images%2Finfo_images%2Fimg_9217.jpg&hash=a45254dd748e05e7b7868b90222bb0c403034cd9)
It was only Super Bowl match-ups, but it was pretty fun.
Nope, we were too heavily into Computer Quarterback. Shit, we brought our friends over & had tournaments, leagues, etc.
Rand Paul has the solution to Detroit's woes:
FREEDOM!QuotePaul unveils plan for Detroit 'economic freedom zone'
Washington — Kentucky U.S. Sen. Rand Paul unveiled Thursday his plan to save Detroit two days after a judge officially declared the Motor City bankrupt.
Paul, widely considered a 2016 potential presidential candidate, said he will introduce legislation Monday to create "economic freedom zones" by dramatically lowering taxes in depressed areas and loosen visa rules to encourage foreign entrepreneurs to immigrate to the city.
"We hope to create taxes so low you essentially are able to bail yourselves out," Paul said Thursday in a conference call outlining his plan.
Paul travels to Detroit Friday for a speech detailing his Motor City ideas before the Detroit Economic Club and for the opening of a new GOP office in the city. Paul, a liberation-leaning senator, has advocated for the Republican Party to widen its tent to traditionally Democratic areas by bringing fresh ideas.
Paul famously said earlier this year Detroit would receive a federal bailout "over my dead body." He has since said he regrets the word choice, but believes his plan not only is politically feasible in Washington's anti-bailout culture and but will be more effective than a government stimulus by leaving money in the city of Detroit.
The economic freedom zone is an updated, more aggressive version of "enterprise zones" that conservatives like U.S. Rep. Jack Kemp advocated during the 1980s and 1990s to spur economic growth in depressed urban areas.
Under the Paul plan, individual income and corporate income taxes would be slashed to a flat rate of 5 percent in pockets of the country with unemployment more than 1.5 times higher than the national average. Payroll taxes would also be lowered, and capital gains taxes would disappear.
In addition, the income requirement for entrepreneurial immigrants would be reduced to $50,000 to encourage people from around the world to move to Detroit. Gov. Rick Snyder has advocated attracting more immigrants to Michigan as a way of helping to revitalize the state.
The Paul plan faces long odds of getting a vote in the Democratic-led Senate or gaining approval in a Congress that has trouble approving many legislative initiatives.
Paul hopes his plan would be more successful than previous enterprise zone initiatives by getting governors on board to lessen the local tax burden, too.
Paul is holding off until his speech Friday on how much he estimates the Motor City would capture under the 10-year plan but said: "It adds up. It becomes a significant amount of money over time. I think the real key is ... the money is going into the hands of the individuals who basically earned it."
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131205/POLITICS03/312050086#ixzz2mcYgGNWX
Liberation leaning, heh
In the 90s Michigan's Republican governor created a number of "Enterprise Zones" throughout the state where businesses would be exempt from state taxes. These were in impoverished areas; so some of them fell in Detroit. At the same time the Clinton administration created an "Enterprise Fund" which provided financial assistance to small businesses in urban areas. Detroit was a major target for that; Al Gore even visited the city to promote the plan. We could see which party's plan worked better for Detroit first hand; stimulus as favored by the Democrats or tax breaks favored by Republicans. As it turns out; neither.
Honest question:
Hasn't it largely been shown by economists that "enterprise zones" are basically a terrible idea? Classic example of a prisoners dilemna, where you are making a short term concession that mgiht benefit some particular portion at the greater expense of everyone else?
It seems to me that if all things being equal, Detroit is a shitty place to open a factory, then creating positive incentives to put one there anyway cannot help but have an adverse effect elsewhere, and to the economy overall. If the market is to be trusted to place factories where they are needed and where they have the best chance to be successful, changing the rules for some areas seems to be a good way to warp the market.
I really like Rand Paul as a Senator but I'm not sure I'd ever want him as president.
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2013, 12:27:08 PM
Hasn't it largely been shown by economists that "enterprise zones" are basically a terrible idea?
I think they can help a lot in certain circumstances. For example if you've got an overbearing bureaucracy/permit Raj system they can help kickstart local economies, which can spread wealth through the country and catalyse reform. I think China and India are slight examples of that - they've helped the local economy and the national economy. Not sure they've caused enough national reform yet.
Edit: Having said that I'm not convinced they're a lot of use in places like the US.
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 05, 2013, 12:39:05 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2013, 12:27:08 PM
Hasn't it largely been shown by economists that "enterprise zones" are basically a terrible idea?
I think they can help a lot in certain circumstances. For example if you've got an overbearing bureaucracy/permit Raj system they can help kickstart local economies, which can spread wealth through the country and catalyse reform. I think China and India are slight examples of that - they've helped the local economy and the national economy. Not sure they've caused enough national reform yet.
Edit: Having said that I'm not convinced they're a lot of use in places like the US.
We had some good experience with them here in Vancouver for both the development of the Port and for holding Expo 86. However in both cases they were work arounds for the then red tape that would have ensnared both projects rather than the financial concessions Berkut was addressing.
Long term those projects were great successes and helped create the political momentum to clean up the regulaltory enviornment for everyone.
What Sheilbh is talking about is using EZs to carry out experimental reform of a planned economy, and/or to limit the political and economic fallout from a reform effort by initially containing it in space.
Dengist China provides a good demonstration that such use of EZs can be very effective under the right circumstances.
But that of course is different from their use in advanced market economies where really it is more as Berkut says - a poorly disguised regional resource transfer scheme.
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 05, 2013, 12:46:47 PMWe had some good experience with them here in Vancouver for both the development of the Port and for holding Expo 86. However in both cases they were work arounds for the then red tape that would have ensnared both projects rather than the financial concessions Berkut was addressing.
Actually that's an example that does work in the West. In the UK you just look at Canary Wharf and the Docklands. A combination of government backed finance, investment spending and regulation cutting with a strong executive-minister in charge. Often it can just be enough to get different councils to work together, which is a challenge in itself.
But I don't know if it can work for an entire city. Over here there's a philosophical argument on the right about this. George Osborne's a big fan of the idea of enterprise zones to help regenerate cities. Michael Heseltine, who was responsible for the Docklands redevelopment, says the biggest thing central government could do is devolve a lot more power to city halls.
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 05, 2013, 12:39:05 PM
I think they can help a lot in certain circumstances. For example if you've got an overbearing bureaucracy/permit Raj system they can help kickstart local economies,
Then Detroit is an ideal place for an enterprise zone. ;)
The problem with the Enterprise Zones that existed in Detroit were that they only addressed the state taxes. The city taxes were still exorbitant and the city bureaucracy was still overbearing and corrupt.
Yeah, Ron Paul is fun as a troll, but you don't elect a troll to be President.
Quote from: Neil on December 05, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
Yeah, Ron Paul is fun as a troll, but you don't elect a troll to be President.
Dubya kinda looks like one. The cutesy doll kind, not the Tolkien monster kind.