During the War a scheme was set up to help the rural agricultural workers and it continued for a few years after during the ongoing rationing, gentlemen I give you:
The Rural Pie Scheme -
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1947/dec/01/meat-pies (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1947/dec/01/meat-pies)
It was mentioned on a documentary the other day, but I haven't found much about it other than the above reference, but what a brilliant scheme, handing out pies to those on farms/in villages to help them with the heavy workload and obviously the answer has to be pies! :cool:
This is so not what I was expecting from the thread title. :(
:P
Quote from: Malthus on December 19, 2012, 10:28:54 AM
This is so not what I was expecting from the thread title. :(
:P
I don't know, getting your hands on a nice warm pie or on a nice pair, that's some dilemma for Cal. :D
The road to serfdom is paved with pies.
There was also concern about beer quality for steelworkers in South Durham :
" 44. Mr. David Jones
asked the Minister of Food whether he has considered the representations from the steel workers employed by the South Durham Steel and Iron Company; and what action he proposes to take to remedy this grievance.
§ Mr. Strachey
I have considered the letter sent to me by my hon. Friend, but I regret that I am unable to give these 22 workers extra rations in their homes. They can, of course, make full use of the canteen facilities which are available, and I will consult with them on how best to adapt their canteens to their needs.
§ Mr. D. Jones
Would my hon. Friend consider that some of these workers are unable to make use of the existing canteen facilities, because they cannot leave their jobs, and is he aware that that is a general complaint?
§ Mr. Strachey
I appreciate that point, and it is exactly to adapting the canteen facilities to the needs of these particular men that we are now addressing our efforts, and we think it is quite possible.
§ Mr. Chetwynd
Would the Minister bear in mind the necessity of maintaining the standard of beer for these workers."
:cheers:
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1947/dec/01/steel-workers-durham-rations
Are these the turnover-style of meat pies or the regular-looking ones? Seems like every culture (save for maybe the US) has their own slight variation on the meat pie turnover.
Quote from: derspiess on December 19, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Are these the turnover-style of meat pies or the regular-looking ones? Seems like every culture (save for maybe the US) has their own slight variation on the meat pie turnover.
I can't think of a Ukrainian meat pie turnover. There's the ubiquitous pyrogy of course, but I've never heard of a meat-filled pyrogy.
Quote from: Barrister on December 19, 2012, 12:59:53 PM
I can't think of a Ukrainian meat pie turnover. There's the ubiquitous pyrogy of course, but I've never heard of a meat-filled pyrogy.
Googling suggests meat-filled pyrogy is pretty common.
I've had meat-filled pyrogi from the Polish grocery store in Chicago. :)
Quote from: Barrister on December 19, 2012, 12:59:53 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 19, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Are these the turnover-style of meat pies or the regular-looking ones? Seems like every culture (save for maybe the US) has their own slight variation on the meat pie turnover.
I can't think of a Ukrainian meat pie turnover. There's the ubiquitous pyrogy of course, but I've never heard of a meat-filled pyrogy.
Okay, then that's another one for the list of those without :D
Here's a run-down of countries that have them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empanada
No idea what a turnover is but here's a typical beef pie
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthegypsychef.co.uk%2Fv2%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2FMeatPie_lo.jpeg&hash=cc34254906bf7a474f27a92e43d1928167931fa8)
I hate to break it to you people but Swiss meat pies are better. :(
Quote from: Caliga on December 19, 2012, 01:30:33 PM
I hate to break it to you people but Swiss meat pies are better. :(
Considering those are but a poor imitation of superior French Meat Pies that is a bitter pill to swallow.
Don't anger me.
Is this the basis for Cut Me Own Throat Dibbler's meat pies?
Quote from: Gups on December 19, 2012, 01:13:17 PM
No idea what a turnover is but here's a typical beef pie
Interesting, but a distant second to the firepower of a fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL chicken pot pie.
Although, I will grant you people a nod to shepherd's pies, when they're done right.
Seedy and I both had Shepherd's Pie on our first date. Actually I think the whole table had Shepherd's Pie.
But it's not a pie.
True, it's more like a casserole. Most restaurants make them in a lasagna dish, and serve slices accordingly.
Quote from: Barrister on December 19, 2012, 12:59:53 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 19, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Are these the turnover-style of meat pies or the regular-looking ones? Seems like every culture (save for maybe the US) has their own slight variation on the meat pie turnover.
I can't think of a Ukrainian meat pie turnover. There's the ubiquitous pyrogy of course, but I've never heard of a meat-filled pyrogy.
Meat-filled pyrogi is the most common. And then there is kulebyaka which is like a large calzone-style pie filled with meat.
In fairness to BB, the Ukes who settled the praires didnt have access to much meat and so their diet adapted accordingly - Potato based perogi ftw!
Quote from: merithyn on December 19, 2012, 01:08:41 PM
I've had meat-filled pyrogi from the Polish grocery store in Chicago. :)
Sacrilege! :ultra:
Quote from: Gups on December 19, 2012, 01:13:17 PM
No idea what a turnover is but here's a typical beef pie
Here it is, Argie-style. I could swear I've seen similar-looking Brit meat pies. Anyway, Argies take theirs very seriously. Each province has its own specialty, and the crimp or pattern in the pastry fold tells you what kind it is (beef, ham/cheese, chicken, etc.)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.viajejet.com%2Fwp-content%2Fviajes%2FEmpanadas-criollas-Argentina.jpg&hash=c78ae2c5d446b595c2bdf2a3a5ebb88341560359)
Quote from: derspiess on December 19, 2012, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: Gups on December 19, 2012, 01:13:17 PM
No idea what a turnover is but here's a typical beef pie
Here it is, Argie-style. I could swear I've seen similar-looking Brit meat pies. Anyway, Argies take theirs very seriously. Each province has its own specialty, and the crimp or pattern in the pastry fold tells you what kind it is (beef, ham/cheese, chicken, etc.)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.viajejet.com%2Fwp-content%2Fviajes%2FEmpanadas-criollas-Argentina.jpg&hash=c78ae2c5d446b595c2bdf2a3a5ebb88341560359)
Those are called Cornish pasties over here or just a pasty for other variants/ more generic items.
Those Argie hot pockets look like they would blow up in your hand like a cluster bomb.
Oh man I'm so looking forward to getting home and having a meat pie. Steak and ale pie ftw.
Here you can sometimes find them along with faux-fish and chips...but they put ketchup on them!?!?! :ultra:
Anyway, that link is awesome.
QuoteMr. Strachey
Anyone living in a rural area may have the benefit of any available rural pie scheme. The latest figures I have show that 1,551,500 packed meals containing pies or other meat products were served during February and March, 1947, by 3,827 pie centres covering 6,011 villages and adjoining areas.
§ Mr. Joynson-Hicks
Is the right hon. Gentleman unable to say how many people are entitled to these pies? Because, so far as I can gather from his 25 answer, it worked out at approximately one pie per day per village—not a very big ration.
§ Mr. Strachey
Anyone in the rural areas is entitled to buy a pie.
§ Mr. Skeffington-Lodge
May we know the difference between agricultural meat pies and ordinary meat pies? Are the first kind for vegetarians only?
§ Mr. Strachey
It is a question of the area and not the pie.
:lol:
ah for the days when parliament got things done....
I especially like chicken pies! :)
Quote from: Barrister on December 19, 2012, 04:42:29 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 19, 2012, 01:08:41 PM
I've had meat-filled pyrogi from the Polish grocery store in Chicago. :)
Sacrilege! :ultra:
Dude, meat-filled pierogi are a classic. Although potato or cheese ones are the most common as they are also cheapest.
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2012, 06:30:18 AM
Dude, meat-filled pierogi are a classic. Although potato or cheese ones are the most common as they are also cheapest.
Isn't that the easiest determination of economic class over there, anyway? Whether someone can afford a meat-filled pierogi?
Hunks of black bread are currency over there.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 20, 2012, 06:32:42 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2012, 06:30:18 AM
Dude, meat-filled pierogi are a classic. Although potato or cheese ones are the most common as they are also cheapest.
Isn't that the easiest determination of economic class over there, anyway? Whether someone can afford a meat-filled pierogi?
Pretty much, yeah. Pierogi started as a peasant dish (filled with cheese or potatos) but later (18th century or so) the nobility and the bourgeoisie acquired taste for them and started to make them with meat, salmon, fruit and the like.
So Marti I know you love ragging on the U.S., but on some level don't you realize aside from the former Soviet Republics Poland has one of the most embarrassingly poor/weak histories of any nation?
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 20, 2012, 07:51:43 AM
So Marti I know you love ragging on the U.S., but on some level don't you realize aside from the former Soviet Republics Poland has one of the most embarrassingly poor/weak histories of any nation?
Uh. Why do people every so often come up with some diss of Poland as a way of getting to me. I mean, I can understand people who do not know me, but anyone who has seen me posting for years knows that I am one of the most vocal critics of Poland.
What's next? Are you going to counter my criticism of protestantism by implying that since I was raised catholic, I do not recognize faults of catholicism? :lol:
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 20, 2012, 07:51:43 AM
So Marti I know you love ragging on the U.S., but on some level don't you realize aside from the former Soviet Republics Poland has one of the most embarrassingly poor/weak histories of any nation?
Really? I think Polish history is pretty awesome.
But then I do not regard history as some sort of competitive sport.
Well, Poles have an overly romanticised version of the dysfunctional anarchy that makes up the most of its pre-modern history.
It's great to tell stories about a country where there is no effective public law enforcement system and 90% of the population lives in virtual slavery, but must not be that nice to live in.
In fact, it could very well be argued that "freedom per capita" in Poland increased significantly once Poland got partitioned (even including the part Russians took over - even if the Tsars' motivation for freeing the peasants was not exactly altruistic).
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2012, 08:56:54 AM
Well, Poles have an overly romanticised version of the dysfunctional anarchy that makes up the most of its pre-modern history.
It's great to tell stories about a country where there is no effective public law enforcement system and 90% of the population lives in virtual slavery, but must not be that nice to live in.
Well to be fair 10% not living in virtual slavery wasn't too bad for the time. And it is the dysfunctional anarchy that makes it cool...well that and the cheesy wings on the Hussars.
Quote from: Valmy on December 20, 2012, 09:07:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2012, 08:56:54 AM
Well, Poles have an overly romanticised version of the dysfunctional anarchy that makes up the most of its pre-modern history.
It's great to tell stories about a country where there is no effective public law enforcement system and 90% of the population lives in virtual slavery, but must not be that nice to live in.
Well to be fair 10% not living in virtual slavery wasn't too bad for the time.
I don't know - in the 16th and 17th century a lot of European countries already had entire populaces pretty much living in freedom - sure, they had poverty and no political rights, but could not be sold like chattel or be killed with impunity by the remaining 10%.
Remember, Valmy is a Sans Culotte. Unless the peasants are chopping off aristocrats heads, they are unfree.
Quote from: PDH on December 20, 2012, 09:19:14 AM
Remember, Valmy is a Sans Culotte. Unless the peasants are chopping off aristocrats heads, they are unfree.
:yes:
Quote from: Valmy on December 20, 2012, 08:41:09 AM
Really? I think Polish history is pretty awesome.
But then I do not regard history as some sort of competitive sport.
I do. Polish military history is like the history of the Dallas Cowboys. Extreme highs, extreme lows, and the occasional Romo fuck-up.
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2012, 07:55:19 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 20, 2012, 07:51:43 AM
So Marti I know you love ragging on the U.S., but on some level don't you realize aside from the former Soviet Republics Poland has one of the most embarrassingly poor/weak histories of any nation?
Uh. Why do people every so often come up with some diss of Poland as a way of getting to me. I mean, I can understand people who do not know me, but anyone who has seen me posting for years knows that I am one of the most vocal critics of Poland.
What's next? Are you going to counter my criticism of protestantism by implying that since I was raised catholic, I do not recognize faults of catholicism? :lol:
Wasn't meant as a dig hombre, I'm aware no gay could ever be patriotic so I knew you weren't some Polish version of Joe America. I just see you posting about some sort of horrid part of Poland (like the pierogi, which is horrid) and its peasant background and I was reminded of just how mind-numbingly shitty Poland's history is.
Well, that particular part of it is no more shitty than pretty much every other European nation.
Essentially, any national dish that does not involve cooking a large slab of cow or pig comes originally from the poor cooking something deemed inedible or cheap and making an art form out of it - any seafood or pasta are great examples.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 20, 2012, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 20, 2012, 08:41:09 AM
Really? I think Polish history is pretty awesome.
But then I do not regard history as some sort of competitive sport.
I do. Polish military history is like the history of the Dallas Cowboys. Extreme highs, extreme lows, and the occasional Romo fuck-up.
So King John III Sobieski= Tom Landry?
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2012, 10:34:35 AM
Essentially, any national dish that does not involve cooking a large slab of cow or pig comes originally from the poor cooking something deemed inedible or cheap and making an art form out of it - any seafood or pasta are great examples.
On this, Marti is wise. :yes:
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2012, 07:55:19 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 20, 2012, 07:51:43 AM
So Marti I know you love ragging on the U.S., but on some level don't you realize aside from the former Soviet Republics Poland has one of the most embarrassingly poor/weak histories of any nation?
Uh. Why do people every so often come up with some diss of Poland as a way of getting to me. I mean, I can understand people who do not know me, but anyone who has seen me posting for years knows that I am one of the most vocal critics of Poland.
What's next? Are you going to counter my criticism of protestantism by implying that since I was raised catholic, I do not recognize faults of catholicism? :lol:
Because you don't want to be Polish, yet you are. You try to create an identity that is as far away from being what you consider "Polish" as possible. But it never works. You want to come off as an urbane, cultured gay man but all we see is an ignorant Polish rube. You can never escape who you are, and will always carry the burden of Poland on your back.
Besides, when we really want to insult you we just call you a Russian.
Quote from: Barrister on December 20, 2012, 01:18:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2012, 10:34:35 AM
Essentially, any national dish that does not involve cooking a large slab of cow or pig comes originally from the poor cooking something deemed inedible or cheap and making an art form out of it - any seafood or pasta are great examples.
On this, Marti is wise. :yes:
A vast overstatement. Most hunted animals are not going to fall in this category. Cheese and bread are examples of food which is neither distinctly peasant nor aristocratic originally.
I always knew a lot of French cuisine that is famous came out of peasant innovations, but then you've also got a good mixture of well known upper class stuff too. I guess my point was with Poland the first cuisine that comes to mind is peasant food, I don't think that is true of Italian or French cuisine.
Thread has reminded me one of the things I need to get in is a decent pork pie. :)
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 20, 2012, 02:03:54 PM
I guess my point was with Poland the first cuisine that comes to mind is peasant food, I don't think that is true of Italian or French cuisine.
In relation to Italian cooking, you cant get much more basic then olive oil, bread, pasta and tomatoes. Granted they do some wonderful things with those basic ingredients.
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 20, 2012, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 20, 2012, 02:03:54 PM
I guess my point was with Poland the first cuisine that comes to mind is peasant food, I don't think that is true of Italian or French cuisine.
In relation to Italian cooking, you cant get much more basic then olive oil, bread, pasta and tomatoes. Granted they do some wonderful things with those basic ingredients.
For Brits that would traditionally be lard, wheat, mutton, potatoes and carrots. :hmm:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 20, 2012, 02:00:01 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 20, 2012, 01:18:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2012, 10:34:35 AM
Essentially, any national dish that does not involve cooking a large slab of cow or pig comes originally from the poor cooking something deemed inedible or cheap and making an art form out of it - any seafood or pasta are great examples.
On this, Marti is wise. :yes:
A vast overstatement. Most hunted animals are not going to fall in this category. Cheese and bread are examples of food which is neither distinctly peasant nor aristocratic originally.
There are many types of bread though and a white wheaten loaf was aristocratic while impoverished peasants ate black bread with many different grades of bread for the ranks in between. We have records of the food allowances given to people at the medieval English court, the bread an individual received was graded like pay and perks are in a modern corporation. Similarly cheese was regarded as an inferior substitute for meat. The forest and other laws in England also prevented the overwhelming majority of people from hunting.
Quote from: mongers on December 20, 2012, 02:57:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 20, 2012, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 20, 2012, 02:03:54 PM
I guess my point was with Poland the first cuisine that comes to mind is peasant food, I don't think that is true of Italian or French cuisine.
In relation to Italian cooking, you cant get much more basic then olive oil, bread, pasta and tomatoes. Granted they do some wonderful things with those basic ingredients.
For Brits that would traditionally be lard, wheat, mutton, potatoes and carrots. :hmm:
Goes a long way to explain why nobody raves about traditional British foods.
The greatness that was Britain?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maritimequest.com%2Fwarship_directory%2Fgreat_britain%2Fbattleships%2Fwarspite%2F02_hms_warspite.jpg&hash=8a6260a2df2516a69bebb4601c8eec4efc77b567)
Had quite a nice melton mowbray pie today, not the one I wanted, as there seems to be a buying frenzy at the moment for them.
Oh and for Neil, I've found a model kit of HMS Warspite, shall I badly build it over Xmas and video it sinking in the river ? :D
Warspite doesn't sink. It grounds itself to avoid getting scrapped.
Quote from: Neil on December 22, 2012, 09:24:35 PM
Warspite doesn't sink. It grounds itself to avoid getting scrapped.
:bowler:
Indeed.
Quote from: Barrister on December 19, 2012, 12:59:53 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 19, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Are these the turnover-style of meat pies or the regular-looking ones? Seems like every culture (save for maybe the US) has their own slight variation on the meat pie turnover.
I can't think of a Ukrainian meat pie turnover. There's the ubiquitous pyrogy of course, but I've never heard of a meat-filled pyrogy.
That's because you're a fake Uke.
There are two kinds of pies: cabbage and meat. Either baked or fried, depending on where in the Rodina you come from.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 20, 2012, 02:03:54 PM
I always knew a lot of French cuisine that is famous came out of peasant innovations, but then you've also got a good mixture of well known upper class stuff too. I guess my point was with Poland the first cuisine that comes to mind is peasant food, I don't think that is true of Italian or French cuisine.
It is true of the French and Italians too. Haute cuisine I think is more about techniques but the dishes and style seems to change according to fashion. Most of the enduring classics come from the peasants, the farms and then, especially in France, the small middle class restaurants - even if they've since been reinterpreted.
Quote from: Scipio on December 22, 2012, 11:45:07 PM
That's because you're a fake Uke.
If being a real Uke requires one to actually live in the Ukraine I think he is coming out ahead here.
Britian is to the history of cuisine roughly what Yeman is to the history of aeronautics.