Not trolling Meri, I promise. :P
So, I'm having a conversation with my wife the other day. I got a little sappy and confessed I had been feeling a bit weak and depressed recently, and that I thought this was a time that I'd need her support more than usual. The result was...a bit withdrawn. It was like, yeah sure, but I got the impression that she really didn't want to be there. Like me being weak was a thing she really did not want to know.
I could more or less watch the vagina dry up as I was saying those words. It's like I tossed the most unsexy thing ever at her and she recoiled.
My question is this: Do women require their men to be strong or at least faking it? Is this the origin of the "men don't share their feelings" thing? Like if we do, we'll get punished for it in the sexual attraction department?
I'm sure that reaction was not intentional on her part, but I am a tuned-in kind of guy and I saw it anyway.
I can't answer for your wife, but my response when a man says that to me is to immediately want to take care of him. It certainly doesn't diminish him or make him less manly in my eyes. If anything, it shows him to be someone to admire more. Anyone can be stoic, but it takes a certain amount of inner strength to admit that you need a hand.
You'd have to ask Max what impression I give to him, though, as I really don't know how he interprets my reaction when he struggles with something emotional. I think I'm being supportive, but maybe he reads it differently.
Have you talked to her about her reaction since this occurred?
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 12:32:19 AM
Have you talked to her about her reaction since this occurred?
Normally, I'm extremely stoic, as you said. This is a rare thing. No, I have not discussed it since then with her, since I'm not quite sure what I should do here. I don't really know if it's better to discuss it or just never mention it again.
I am a strong guy, and I can handle most anything that comes along. It's just anyone will eventually need help. She's always been there for me before, but does the actual act of admitting it to her verbally make a difference?
I most definitely did not get the impression that the response was to want to take care of me. Other times in the past, that has been the case, but not here.
Those cases in the past...did she sense it herself and react accordingly, or did you verbalize then as well. (my theory ing that maybe she just doesn't like it being declared in such a way)
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 17, 2012, 01:03:01 AM
Those cases in the past...did she sense it herself and react accordingly, or did you verbalize then as well. (my theory ing that maybe she just doesn't like it being declared in such a way)
Yes, she sensed it herself. Like the time I was held up at gunpoint in the drive-thru, and when my dad died. It may be the part about my admitting weakness that shuts her off. Good observation.
You could flip the question and ask why she didn't feel the need to fake being supportive.
To answer the original question, I try to no longer share my feelings with people I know in real life. It's pretty pointless and usually counterproductive. I'd like to think that a woman wouldn't treat me like a dick if I did, though, but I'm not that optimistic about humans.
Not to be a dick, but is your EQ up to scratch? You talk about impressions, are you sure you were understanding them correctly? Being a strong silent stoic type myself I can speak from experience here and I usually I have no inkling of what other people are thinking. Not being used to emoting I have trouble understanding others doing so.
However, if this is the case and you ask for help and she can give it (or at least try) without cost to herself then I'd reconsider the whole relationship. You were basically asking her to hold you, tell you that she loves you and everything was going to be all right; the mommy thing.
Yeah, Vikes you basically got the crux of my query in hand there.
Okay, so following the bleeding obvious question of have you asked her..
(Which I should have done first). I asked her.
Answer was that essentially, she responded much as I would have, the two of us having similar personality types. She said she was supportive though she didn't know what to say to express it. This, I believe.
On the other hand, I also think that it wasn't necessarily the correct move to bare everything. We've been married nearly 15 years. This was not an -OMG MIM is so sensitive I want to bone him- moment. It was more of a -MIM is sensitive and I put up with that even though it turns me off- sort of thing. She said she's been trying to think of ways to help me out ever since. She seems to genuinely want to support me however she can. I've always been the strong one here.
I don't mind being vulnerable, but I don't want to wreck the magic by going too far and abandoning my manhood. I think maybe there is a level of mystery that must be maintained for the sake of romance, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. It depends on the girl, obviously. That I'm still figuring this out says I got married way too early in life and lucked the fuck out. :P
Don't interpret this as anything serious that my relationship hinges on. It's not that big a deal. I just thought I should probably fine-tune my mojo a bit. I'm overthinking.
Just to inform the situation and why I think the way I do...
When I was a junior in high school, I dated a girl whose father was a minister. At one point, he had a nervous breakdown, and confessed this to his wife and congregation. It was the ultimate expression of weakness and vulnerability. His wife made a brave showing of support for him, but later it was discovered that she had been cheating on him. I genuinely believe that the two things went together.
I'm nowhere close to that, but I don't want to get any closer to it either.
Stop trolling Meri MiM. :lol: ;)
Hot chicks despise and recoil from a herbivorous male simp, whatever they may proclaim to the contrary. Masculine mojo with the occaisonal hint of vulnerability is where it's at. If that dosen't come naturally to you, fake it till you make it, and it becomes an ingrained part of your personality.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 17, 2012, 02:52:17 AM
To answer the original question, I try to no longer share my feelings with people I know in real life. It's pretty pointless and usually counterproductive. I'd like to think that a woman wouldn't treat me like a dick if I did, though, but I'm not that optimistic about humans.
That's healthy...
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2012, 04:13:14 AM
I don't mind being vulnerable, but I don't want to wreck the magic by going too far and abandoning my manhood. I think maybe there is a level of mystery that must be maintained for the sake of romance, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. It depends on the girl, obviously.
:lol:
Quote from: Ideologue on December 17, 2012, 02:52:17 AM
To answer the original question, I try to no longer share my feelings with people I know in real life. It's pretty pointless and usually counterproductive. I'd like to think that a woman wouldn't treat me like a dick if I did, though, but I'm not that optimistic about humans.
Well what you do if somebody shared their feelings with you?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2012, 04:13:14 AM
I don't mind being vulnerable, but I don't want to wreck the magic by going too far and abandoning my manhood. I think maybe there is a level of mystery that must be maintained for the sake of romance, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
I am amazed after 15 years of marriage this is a consideration.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2012, 04:28:54 AM
Just to inform the situation and why I think the way I do...
When I was a junior in high school, I dated a girl whose father was a minister. At one point, he had a nervous breakdown, and confessed this to his wife and congregation. It was the ultimate expression of weakness and vulnerability. His wife made a brave showing of support for him, but later it was discovered that she had been cheating on him. I genuinely believe that the two things went together.
I'm nowhere close to that, but I don't want to get any closer to it either.
They may have gone together, but not in the way that you are thinking.
I look at it this way: A marriage is a partnership, with two people pulling the load together. Sometimes, one has to take a break for a while, making the other pull the load on their own while the other catch's their breath. Then, once they're ready, they step, and they pull together again. The next time, it might be the other partner's turn to catch their breath. This works so long as the majority of the time they're pulling together. If, however, one starts to feel as though they are always the one pulling the load - or someone starts to feel like they shouldn't have to pull the load at all - the marriage bond begins to break down. So, if someone is dealing with a serious depression over a very long period of time without seeking help to fix it, the other is left to carry the burden. For a while, this might still work, but eventually, it will become too much and something will give.
I can imagine, in the scenario that you presented, that if it got to the point of a mental breakdown, the minister wasn't carrying his portion of the load for a long, long while. It wasn't the breakdown that diminished his wife's capacity to be there, it was all of the time leading up to it. If the minster wasn't able to look for or get help - or chose not to in order to appear The Strong One - it had to take a toll on everyone in his family, and likely his congregation. By the time he fell completely apart, the damage was already well and truly done.
So, it's not showing vulnerability that causes that loss of affection. It's not doing what needs doing when the vulnerability shows itself.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2012, 04:13:14 AM
I don't mind being vulnerable, but I don't want to wreck the magic by going too far and abandoning my manhood. I think maybe there is a level of mystery that must be maintained for the sake of romance, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
If showing yourself to be vulnerable wrecks the magic of your marriage, there are bigger issues going on, I would guess. I'm not saying being a blubbering idiot is attractive, but needing an emotional hand every now and then isn't going to destroy 15 years of love and affection, either.
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 09:38:49 AM
If showing yourself to be vulnerable wrecks the magic of your marriage, there are bigger issues going on, I would guess. I'm not saying being a blubbering idiot is attractive, but needing an emotional hand every now and then isn't going to destroy 15 years of love and affection, either.
@Ed - This :contract:
Whoever bet MiM he couldnt pull off this troll has to pay up.
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 17, 2012, 10:25:23 AM
Whoever bet MiM he couldnt pull off this troll has to pay up.
And then hurt themselves as why would this be a particularly hard troll to pull off? :huh:
:mellow:
Yay, he wins because Meri took something at face value on Languish? How is this news to anyone, or difficult to accomplish?
My wife is always repulsed when she sees a man crying on TV (typically on reality-type shows) and has warned me from time to time not to turn into some blubbering wuss. I'm not a very emotional person (particularly not outwardly) so it works out fine.
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 10:31:17 AM
My wife is always repulsed when she sees a man crying on TV (typically on reality-type shows) and has warned me from time to time not to turn into some blubbering wuss. I'm not a very emotional person (particularly not outwardly) so it works out fine.
Your wife sounds awesome. :cool:
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 10:28:10 AM
:mellow:
Yay, he wins because Meri took something at face value on Languish? How is this news to anyone, or difficult to accomplish?
We got caught by CC troll. -_-
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2012, 12:21:58 AM
So, I'm having a conversation with my wife the other day. I got a little sappy and confessed I had been feeling a bit weak and depressed recently, and that I thought this was a time that I'd need her support more than usual. The result was...a bit withdrawn. It was like, yeah sure, but I got the impression that she really didn't want to be there. Like me being weak was a thing she really did not want to know.
I could more or less watch the vagina dry up as I was saying those words. It's like I tossed the most unsexy thing ever at her and she recoiled.
I LOL'd.
QuoteMy question is this: Do women require their men to be strong or at least faking it? Is this the origin of the "men don't share their feelings" thing? Like if we do, we'll get punished for it in the sexual attraction department?
I don't think the tears matter as much as it is the communication. They want you to talk. And talk. And talk some more. Crying is not necessary. But talking is.
Then again, who knows what they want. Goofy ass creatures.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 10:39:04 AM
I don't think the tears matter as much as it is the communication. They want you to talk. And talk. And talk some more. Crying is not necessary. But talking is.
Then again, who knows what they want. Goofy ass creatures.
That about sums it up. Talk. :)
Well, and compliments. Those tend to go over well, too.
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 10:31:17 AM
My wife is always repulsed when she sees a man crying on TV (typically on reality-type shows) and has warned me from time to time not to turn into some blubbering wuss.
That explains so much.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 10:43:26 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 10:31:17 AM
My wife is always repulsed when she sees a man crying on TV (typically on reality-type shows) and has warned me from time to time not to turn into some blubbering wuss.
That explains so much.
:lol:
Quote from: garbon on December 17, 2012, 09:44:30 AM
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 09:38:49 AM
If showing yourself to be vulnerable wrecks the magic of your marriage, there are bigger issues going on, I would guess. I'm not saying being a blubbering idiot is attractive, but needing an emotional hand every now and then isn't going to destroy 15 years of love and affection, either.
@Ed - This :contract:
I said nothing. I wasn't getting involved in this thread.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 17, 2012, 10:52:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 17, 2012, 09:44:30 AM
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 09:38:49 AM
If showing yourself to be vulnerable wrecks the magic of your marriage, there are bigger issues going on, I would guess. I'm not saying being a blubbering idiot is attractive, but needing an emotional hand every now and then isn't going to destroy 15 years of love and affection, either.
@Ed - This :contract:
I said nothing. I wasn't getting involved in this thread.
I just think of you now when I say "this". :P
oh. :blush:
I don't think MIM is trolling. He is a pretty sincere poster an there's nothing in the post that gives me an insincere vibe.
What's interesting to me MIM is that, whereas most people would focus on the emotional/psychological response to an expression of vulnerability, you talked mostly about sexuality. Was the wifey also unsupportive/unresponsive emotionally?
Quote from: Caliga on December 17, 2012, 10:34:30 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 10:31:17 AM
My wife is always repulsed when she sees a man crying on TV (typically on reality-type shows) and has warned me from time to time not to turn into some blubbering wuss. I'm not a very emotional person (particularly not outwardly) so it works out fine.
Your wife sounds awesome. :cool:
She is a hoot.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 10:43:26 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 10:31:17 AM
My wife is always repulsed when she sees a man crying on TV (typically on reality-type shows) and has warned me from time to time not to turn into some blubbering wuss.
That explains so much.
We have what to outsiders sounds like the most dysfunctional relationship ever. But when you get beyond the bickering and silliness it actually works.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 17, 2012, 11:15:31 AM
I don't think MIM is trolling. He is a pretty sincere poster an there's nothing in the post that gives me an insincere vibe.
What's interesting to me MIM is that, whereas most people would focus on the emotional/psychological response to an expression of vulnerability, you talked mostly about sexuality. Was the wifey also unsupportive/unresponsive emotionally?
I noticed this as well, but assumed that that was a guy thing. :blush:
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 17, 2012, 11:15:31 AM
I don't think MIM is trolling. He is a pretty sincere poster an there's nothing in the post that gives me an insincere vibe.
What's interesting to me MIM is that, whereas most people would focus on the emotional/psychological response to an expression of vulnerability, you talked mostly about sexuality. Was the wifey also unsupportive/unresponsive emotionally?
I noticed this as well, but assumed that that was a guy thing. :blush:
you can get understanding from friends and professionals, you can only get sex from your wife... Well you can get sex from friends and professionals too, but it gets trickier :lol:
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 17, 2012, 11:15:31 AM
I don't think MIM is trolling. He is a pretty sincere poster an there's nothing in the post that gives me an insincere vibe.
What's interesting to me MIM is that, whereas most people would focus on the emotional/psychological response to an expression of vulnerability, you talked mostly about sexuality. Was the wifey also unsupportive/unresponsive emotionally?
I noticed this as well, but assumed that that was a guy thing. :blush:
It is a guy thing. :P
Mostly I'm just living in my own head. Manufacturing insecurities that aren't really there. None of this is really that important. I guess I just got a reaction I didn't quite expect, that's all. I'm not the type of dude that's always gushing about my feelings and neither of us are used to hearing that crap. Stress does strange things to you.
You should make her cry. Forced and non-lubed anal penetration for starters should get the waterworks flowing.
Yes, it does. :hug:
FWIW, I try really hard not to take first reactions to anything at face value, especially when it's something unusual being addressed. People have weird reactions that may not have anything at all to do with you or what you're saying, and everything to do with what they're thinking at that moment combined with what you're saying. If that makes any sense...
That being said, I've also learned not to take Max's silence as him thinking, "OMFG, what have I gotten myself into???" It's just how he processes things, and I have to wait for a reaction. It took me four or five years to learn that, though. :blush:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 12:48:08 PM
You should make her cry. Forced and non-lubed anal penetration for starters should get the waterworks flowing.
WTF?? :blink: :bleeding:
Wait a minute; you just responded with--
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 12:49:22 PM
Yes, it does. :hug:
--and now you want to change your mind? CMON LADY
I dont understand the question.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 12:52:38 PM
Wait a minute; you just responded with--
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 12:49:22 PM
Yes, it does. :hug:
--and now you want to change your mind? CMON LADY
THAT WASN'T FOR YOU!! :contract: :ultra: :glare:
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 12:49:22 PM
Yes, it does. :hug:
:lol:
Perhaps the funniest mistimed response in the history of Languish
<_< :Embarrass: :ph34r:
:P
:lol: The hug emoticon was the best part.
:lol:
'Remember, folks, use quote when replying or ... '
Quote from: 11B4V on December 17, 2012, 01:20:57 PM
I dont understand the question.
:(
This is The correct Languish response. :cool:
MiM you should really have taken her response as an opportunity to question the definitions of the words she was using, then you could have got a semantic win and ended up feeling much better about yourself.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2012, 04:13:14 AM
Yeah, Vikes you basically got the crux of my query in hand there.
Okay, so following the bleeding obvious question of have you asked her..
(Which I should have done first). I asked her.
Answer was that essentially, she responded much as I would have, the two of us having similar personality types. She said she was supportive though she didn't know what to say to express it. This, I believe.
On the other hand, I also think that it wasn't necessarily the correct move to bare everything. We've been married nearly 15 years. This was not an -OMG MIM is so sensitive I want to bone him- moment. It was more of a -MIM is sensitive and I put up with that even though it turns me off- sort of thing. She said she's been trying to think of ways to help me out ever since. She seems to genuinely want to support me however she can. I've always been the strong one here.
I don't mind being vulnerable, but I don't want to wreck the magic by going too far and abandoning my manhood. I think maybe there is a level of mystery that must be maintained for the sake of romance, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. It depends on the girl, obviously. That I'm still figuring this out says I got married way too early in life and lucked the fuck out. :P
Don't interpret this as anything serious that my relationship hinges on. It's not that big a deal. I just thought I should probably fine-tune my mojo a bit. I'm overthinking.
More seriously, doesn't sound like coolness, more like miscommunication, as this was the first instance, I wouldn't base much if anything on it, at another time and situation you'll both probably react more in sync.
Yes you're over-thinking this, like me and probably the majority of languishites would, that's why we're here.