I don't know how I feel about this. :hmm:
Link (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1696342/idris-elba-james-bond.jhtml)
QuoteNaomie Harris, one of the two Bond girls vying for the superspy's affection in "Skyfall," set off a flurry of news stories earlier this week when a quote from her interview with the Huffington Post appeared online. The comment that grabbed headlines had to do with her "Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom" co-star and vocal 007 aspirant, Idris Elba.
This isn't the first time that we've heard talk of Bond being played by a black actor. In 2008, current Bond, Daniel Craig put the idea forward. "I think the role could easily be played by a black actor because the character created by Ian Fleming in the '50s has undergone a great deal of evolution and continues to be updated," he said.
Though Elba had previously spoken about wanting to be the first black Bond, we didn't know that the talk amounted to anything more than just that — until Harris revealed that he met with 007 producer Barbara Broccoli.
"I didn't realize that there was this talk and then I did a film with Idris and he said that he met Barbara Broccoli and that it does seem like there is a possibility in the future that there could very well be a black James Bond," Harris said. "And I would have to vote for Idris because I just finished working with him and he's a great guy."
Elba as Bond is certainly a popular idea among many fans on the Internet, but whether it's a realistic one is another story. With "Skyfall" now poised to take over the world in the next few weeks, Daniel Craig is sitting quite comfortable as the man with a license to kill. He has at least two more films in him, which would keep him in the role until 2016 at the earliest. That would make Elba 46 by the time his first Bond movie rolled around in 2018, in theory.
However, that didn't keep Harris from singing Elba's praises during our interview with her. She considers herself a big supporter of the idea, since Elba has all the quality he needs to step into the iconic tux.
"He would an amazing Bond. He'd be fantastic. I'd vote for him," Harris said. "Because he has an elegance about him, and there's a mysterious quality. And he's super, super hot as well."
Surprisingly, I could totally see a black 007. Just as long as he still has an english accent.
Quote from: Barrister on October 26, 2012, 05:03:43 PM
Surprisingly, I could totally see a black 007. Just as long as he still has an english accent.
Then he wouldn't really be black then, now would he?
Of course it would make sense. Many millions of peoples of many races and ethnicities feel residual loyalty to the British Empire. :bowler:
Stringer would be a good Bond.
How so, M?
Black Felix Leiter is cooler.
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
How so, M?
Well, I think Idris Elba could totally pull it off. He has that suave, sexy attitude that makes Bond Bond. But James has always been white. So, it would take a big leap for me to accept someone who is not white for the role. Doesn't mean that I can't/won't make it, but it will still be a bit of a jolt on some level.
Idris Elba is dreamy.
I have let's see, oh zero problem with a black Bond. I mean who gives a fuck.
Quote from: merithyn on October 26, 2012, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
How so, M?
Well, I think Idris Elba could totally pull it off. He has that suave, sexy attitude that makes Bond Bond. But James has always been white. So, it would take a big leap for me to accept someone who is not white for the role. Doesn't mean that I can't/won't make it, but it will still be a bit of a jolt on some level.
<_<
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 05:15:01 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 26, 2012, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
How so, M?
Well, I think Idris Elba could totally pull it off. He has that suave, sexy attitude that makes Bond Bond. But James has always been white. So, it would take a big leap for me to accept someone who is not white for the role. Doesn't mean that I can't/won't make it, but it will still be a bit of a jolt on some level.
<_<
:huh:
What? I'd have just as hard (if not harder) of a time if they made Bond a woman.
Being black is as bad as being a woman now? Stop digging plz.
How many black super-secret agents did MI6 have in the '60s?
The problem with this is the 007 bit, the notion of a British super spy helping Britain punch way over it's weight is so last century.
I think it's time to but James Bond out to grass.
Quote from: mongers on October 26, 2012, 05:22:40 PM
The problem with this is the 007 bit, the notion of a British super spy helping Britain punch way over it's weight is so last century.
I think it's time to but James Bond out to grass.
Until the box office returns become last century amounts Mr. Bond is not going anywhere.
Elba has the swagger to do it, and the physicality to be good in a modern action film. As much as I normally hate it when they try and shoehorn minorities into parts that were written for white folks, I think that this is a case when it would actually work rather well. 007 isn't a man so much as he is a title, and the cardinal rule is that if he's cool, it's all good.
Quote from: Neil on October 26, 2012, 05:30:27 PM
Elba has the swagger to do it, and the physicality to be good in a modern action film. As much as I normally hate it when they try and shoehorn minorities into parts that were written for white folks, I think that this is a case when it would actually work rather well. 007 isn't a man so much as he is a title, and the cardinal rule is that if he's cool, it's all good.
Yeah. Elba is definitely someone who can pull of being James Bond. I admit, though, that I had a problem with Daniel Craig playing Bond because he was a blond. It just seemed wrong. I've gotten used to it, though, and now think that he's a great James Bond. I don't doubt that I'd be the same with Idris Elba, especially if we get regular shirtless shots.
Quote from: merithyn on October 26, 2012, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
How so, M?
Well, I think Idris Elba could totally pull it off. He has that suave, sexy attitude that makes Bond Bond. But James has always been white. So, it would take a big leap for me to accept someone who is not white for the role. Doesn't mean that I can't/won't make it, but it will still be a bit of a jolt on some level.
See, I'm not usually for race-blind casting, because a character's race usually informs their character to such a degree that by changing their race you are radically changing their character (you cannot, for example, just cast a black dude as Superman and say, "Diversity!", for example, although as times move forward, it's becoming less of an issue; and Nick Fury as a black guy is
really problematic if you retain Nick Fury's original backstory, almost as problematic as making Captain America black; casting black Norse gods is actually, maybe ironically, far less quarrelsome because that modern kind of racism didn't exist on the Gothic steppe where those guys originated).
But James Bond? Fuck it. I've been waiting for years for the Bond movie where they finally pull the trigger on the concept and the Bond played by the marquee actor actually dies at the end of the first act, to be replaced by the new model 007. James Bond is a caricature, or more charitably multiple characters filling one role, not an integral character to himself.
Also: I'd vote for Chiwetel Ejiofor. I hear Idris Elba's name a lot, but I've never seen him in anything but Prometheus and that movie suuuuucked, and he really was not that great in it. OH HE CAN DO A SOUTHERN ACCENT WHAT A MAMMOTH TALENT YOU HAVE. But I guess he'd be fine, sure.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 26, 2012, 05:47:29 PM
I hear Idris Elba's name a lot, but I've never seen him in anything but Prometheus
WTF
He was in the Ghost Rider sequel, not that that's something worth bragging about. And he was a badass in that Britcop show.
Quote from: merithyn on October 26, 2012, 05:20:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 05:15:01 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 26, 2012, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
How so, M?
Well, I think Idris Elba could totally pull it off. He has that suave, sexy attitude that makes Bond Bond. But James has always been white. So, it would take a big leap for me to accept someone who is not white for the role. Doesn't mean that I can't/won't make it, but it will still be a bit of a jolt on some level.
<_<
:huh:
What? I'd have just as hard (if not harder) of a time if they made Bond a woman.
Has 4 years been enough time to get you to be okay with having a black president? After all, that's a position that has an even longer history of only being white.
:lol:
James Bond's a character, not an institution.
I think speculation on a black bond is all that there will be. You can't fuck too much with the franchise. If you make bond black you will have to explain why he is black... and like the joker says, a joke isn't funny if you need to explain it.
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:00:27 PM
If you make bond black you will have to explain why he is black...
:unsure:
Quote from: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:00:27 PM
If you make bond black you will have to explain why he is black...
:unsure:
While if you make Bond Irish or Scottish, or Australian then you don't need to explain. If having a black bond is ok, why isn't anybody thinking about a chinese bond?
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:04:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:00:27 PM
If you make bond black you will have to explain why he is black...
:unsure:
While if you make Bond Irish or Scottish, or Australian then you don't need to explain. If having a black bond is ok, why isn't anybody thinking about a chinese bond?
I don't know. I guess because we have people like Meri who would be put out because he isn't white.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 05:59:02 PM
:lol:
James Bond's a character, not an institution.
I don't see the importance of that difference. Bond has been played by all different sorts of men, just like the role of President of the US.
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:04:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:00:27 PM
If you make bond black you will have to explain why he is black...
:unsure:
While if you make Bond Irish or Scottish, or Australian then you don't need to explain. If having a black bond is ok, why isn't anybody thinking about a chinese bond?
I don't follow.
Quote from: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 06:10:09 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:04:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:00:27 PM
If you make bond black you will have to explain why he is black...
:unsure:
While if you make Bond Irish or Scottish, or Australian then you don't need to explain. If having a black bond is ok, why isn't anybody thinking about a chinese bond?
I don't follow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz0rGmc5u_c
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:08:05 PM
I don't see the importance of that difference. Bond has been played by all different sorts of men, just like the role of President of the US.
No, he's been played by tall athletic white men with British-sounding accents. The audience accepts all of them as being the same guy. Nobody thinks of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan as being the same guy. Or Dennis Haysbert and Morgan Freeman, for that matter.
Hey, garbo, as a black man on black issues, what are your opinions of race blind casting in general? Basically what I'm asking for is that you fully validate my opinions. :)
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:14:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz0rGmc5u_c
They make ABBA look like the Beatles. :hmm:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 06:24:23 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:14:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
They make ABBA look like the Beatles. :hmm:
I think it's funny in a bork bork bork kind of way.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 26, 2012, 06:20:23 PM
Hey, garbo, as a black man on black issues, what are your opinions of race blind casting in general? Basically what I'm asking for is that you fully validate my opinions. :)
Sorry but what you posted seems backwards to me.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:08:05 PM
I don't see the importance of that difference. Bond has been played by all different sorts of men, just like the role of President of the US.
No, he's been played by tall athletic white men with British-sounding accents. The audience accepts all of them as being the same guy. Nobody thinks of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan as being the same guy. Or Dennis Haysbert and Morgan Freeman, for that matter.
It's just a role and as much as there is continuity there is also a lot of difference that various actors have brought to the role (and I'd guess for you then more strikingly with Dench playing M). I don't see why race is a much bigger factor than acting style and approach to the character.
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 26, 2012, 06:20:23 PM
Hey, garbo, as a black man on black issues, what are your opinions of race blind casting in general? Basically what I'm asking for is that you fully validate my opinions. :)
Sorry but what you posted seems backwards to me.
Actually to expand on that - I think racial based casting only makes sense if you are either a) trying to highlight the effects of racism in the work (so it wouldn't make sense to have white women playing the black roles in The Help) or you're trying to get at a culture/sub-culture where it would be awkward if you didn't pick someone of that race (like Tyler Perry films).
So I guess that kind of goes with what you said though I'd say something like Nick Fury doesn't fit as his original backstory has no role in the film and as such his race doesn't really matter.
M is a title, Dench didn't become Bernard Lee, she just took his job. There are numerous references to her "predecessor" that go along with that.
It could be do able but what it really needs is a throwback Bond. In the 1960s.
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 26, 2012, 07:00:58 PM
It could be do able but what it really needs is a throwback Bond. In the 1960s.
Agree. Craig's films and to a lesser extent Brosnan's have seen Bond looking less and less like Bond and more like any other action-oriented spy thriller.
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:04:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:00:27 PM
If you make bond black you will have to explain why he is black...
:unsure:
While if you make Bond Irish or Scottish, or Australian then you don't need to explain. If having a black bond is ok, why isn't anybody thinking about a chinese bond?
Because if he were Chinese he'd be on the side of evil.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 06:57:58 PM
M is a title, Dench didn't become Bernard Lee, she just took his job. There are numerous references to her "predecessor" that go along with that.
I don't think that's exactly correct. After all, Casino Royale was like a reboot of the series with us seeing how Bond first become 007.
QuoteBolstered by the success of Universal Pictures' rival Jason Bourne film series (as well as Warner Bros.' reboot of the Batman series with Batman Begins), the decision was made at MGM and Eon to "bring Bond back to his roots" by eliminating the gadgets and fantasy elements that had begun to define the series, and introducing a tougher, darker, and more realistic Bond that was more in line with the Bond of Ian Fleming's original novels than with any of his previous screen incarnations. Thus, the 21st Bond film, Casino Royale, in addition to being the first film adaptation of a Fleming novel since 1969's On Her Majesty's Secret Service, was to be a reboot of the series, establishing a new timeline and narrative framework not meant to precede any previous film.This not only freed the Bond series from more than forty years of continuity, but allowed the film to show a less experienced and more vulnerable Bond.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 05:59:02 PM
:lol:
James Bond's a character, not an institution.
A character with a Scottish dad and a Swiss mom. Will the black JB be a reboot where his mom is actually Jamaican?
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 05:56:45 PM
Has 4 years been enough time to get you to be okay with having a black president? After all, that's a position that has an even longer history of only being white.
<_<
Don't even try pulling the racist card on this one, boo-boo. The President is doing a job, not playing a role. There's a world of difference between a beloved fictional character and a job. I wouldn't be any happier if they made a new Winnie the Poo movie and painted him pink. :contract:
Well, Dench came on the scene in Goldeneye as someone stepping into the job. There was continuity then. They changed a lot more than just M's gender(or conversely, Bond's age) for Casino Royale. I'm not huge on reboots(though Batman was done quite well) and changing major characters' sex or race seems pretty gimmicky. However, I'm a sucker for spy thrillers and so would probably give it a chance.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 26, 2012, 07:20:55 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 05:59:02 PM
:lol:
James Bond's a character, not an institution.
A character with a Scottish dad and a Swiss mom. Will the black JB be a reboot where his mom is actually Jamaican?
I don't think there is a rule that says you can't be black and Scottish. Maybe there is in Switzerland, but not Scotland.
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:06:56 PM
I don't know. I guess because we have people like Meri who would be put out because he isn't white.
Oh, for fuck's sake. :rolleyes:
What I actually said was that I didn't know how I would feel about it. That it would take a leap,
and that I would probably be fine with it. :contract:
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 26, 2012, 06:20:23 PM
Hey, garbo, as a black man on black issues, what are your opinions of race blind casting in general? Basically what I'm asking for is that you fully validate my opinions. :)
Sorry but what you posted seems backwards to me.
Actually to expand on that - I think racial based casting only makes sense if you are either a) trying to highlight the effects of racism in the work (so it wouldn't make sense to have white women playing the black roles in The Help) or you're trying to get at a culture/sub-culture where it would be awkward if you didn't pick someone of that race (like Tyler Perry films).
So I guess that kind of goes with what you said though I'd say something like Nick Fury doesn't fit as his original backstory has no role in the film and as such his race doesn't really matter.
It is a little off putting in a historical film. If FDR is played by a Pakistani actor, it's a bit strange. I would make an exception with a Shakespearean play, when you pick someone to play Henry V, you aren't actually playing the historical king, you are playing character a from the play who is essentially a distinct character.
I'm not a huge Bond fan, but I always thought that James bond was kind of a code name and not the real character's name at all and that there were multiple different people who went by that name through the years.
It's not like was really serious literature. I mean you aren't going to find women named "Pussy Galore", or "Holly Goodhead" outside of a porn film.
It would take about 5 minutes of getting used to, I think... provided he still had the British accent and performed superhuman feats of cool and daring-do. :bowler:
I'm just worried that what happened to Mission Impossible happens to James Bond. MI was a genre and the Movie went out of it's way to demolish everything about it. It because a generic action thriller with a name which had caché. You can make an action thriller and call it bond, but if you don't follow the genre then it won't be bond, it will just be an action movie. The genre rules mean that the viewers do know what to expect and thus are willing to pay because they want more of it.
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 08:03:03 PM
I'm just worried that what happened to Mission Impossible happens to James Bond. MI was a genre and the Movie went out of it's way to demolish everything about it. It because a generic action thriller with a name which had caché. You can make an action thriller and call it bond, but if you don't follow the genre then it won't be bond, it will just be an action movie. The genre rules mean that the viewers do know what to expect and thus are willing to pay because they want more of it.
Hasn't this already happened?
Meh, I don't care. IMO, the franchise went dead around the time Pierce Brosnan started playing it. It turned from an action movie that didn't take itself too seriously, to a mindless action thriller with way too many special effects.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:08:05 PM
I don't see the importance of that difference. Bond has been played by all different sorts of men, just like the role of President of the US.
No, he's been played by tall athletic white men with British-sounding accents. The audience accepts all of them as being the same guy. Nobody thinks of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan as being the same guy. Or Dennis Haysbert and Morgan Freeman, for that matter.
An unaging, shape shifting man? Bond isn't Dr. Who.
007 is obviously a code name that multiple different agents have had over the last 50 years.
Or it just has a floating timeline, and different actors.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 26, 2012, 08:45:57 PM
Or it just has a floating timeline, and different actors.
:yes:
Only time I've seen any suggestion of multiple Bonds was in Casino Royale... the spoof version from the 60s.
I must be thinking of this
QuoteDuring the planning Stages of 2002′s "Die Another Day" the producers actually wanted to include a cameo by the original Bond, Sean Connery, but in what context to include him? Briefly, screenwriter Stephen Wade thought of a strange idea: what if "James Bond" wasn't a name, but a code name assigned to certain agents? When the Connery cameo fell through the "codename" idea was scrapped, Director Lee Tamahori commented in an interview "that was good judgment prevailing." This hasn't stopped some of the fan-base from using the "codename theory" to explain why James Bond has been roughly the same age since 1962. Still, if this would have been introduced officially it would have made some fairly glaring continuity errors, such as the Moore-era Bond recognizing gadgets from the Connery era, or the Dalton era bond resigning from M16 and keeping the name in his time away from the agency.
http://listverse.com/2011/11/02/10-things-you-probably-dont-know-about-bond/
I didn't realize that Meri had joined the Tea Party. :hmm:
Quote from: Habbaku on October 26, 2012, 09:08:15 PM
I didn't realize that Meri had joined the Tea Party. :hmm:
Her vagina got tired of posting here.
I don't see why not considering it alone, its not like Bond's appearance is consistant otherwise.
But making him black just for the sake of making him black and trying to be all modern and cool and that....nah
Quote from: Tyr on October 26, 2012, 09:20:51 PM
I don't see why not considering it alone, its not like Bond's appearance is consistant otherwise.
But making him black just for the sake of making him black and trying to be all modern and cool and that....nah
What about the sake of picking a good actor? :huh:
Quote from: Razgovory on October 26, 2012, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 26, 2012, 06:20:23 PM
Hey, garbo, as a black man on black issues, what are your opinions of race blind casting in general? Basically what I'm asking for is that you fully validate my opinions. :)
Sorry but what you posted seems backwards to me.
Actually to expand on that - I think racial based casting only makes sense if you are either a) trying to highlight the effects of racism in the work (so it wouldn't make sense to have white women playing the black roles in The Help) or you're trying to get at a culture/sub-culture where it would be awkward if you didn't pick someone of that race (like Tyler Perry films).
So I guess that kind of goes with what you said though I'd say something like Nick Fury doesn't fit as his original backstory has no role in the film and as such his race doesn't really matter.
It is a little off putting in a historical film. If FDR is played by a Pakistani actor, it's a bit strange. I would make an exception with a Shakespearean play, when you pick someone to play Henry V, you aren't actually playing the historical king, you are playing character a from the play who is essentially a distinct character.
You're right that'd be another reason, might be odd for a historical character - though who knows. I mean we've had lots of white people play characters that weren't exactly lily white.
Quote from: merithyn on October 26, 2012, 07:27:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:06:56 PM
I don't know. I guess because we have people like Meri who would be put out because he isn't white.
Oh, for fuck's sake. :rolleyes:
What I actually said was that I didn't know how I would feel about it. That it would take a leap, and that I would probably be fine with it. :contract:
I don't see how that contradicts what I said. You'd be put out at first because a Bond who isn't white isn't Bond.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 07:22:22 PM
Well, Dench came on the scene in Goldeneye as someone stepping into the job. There was continuity then. They changed a lot more than just M's gender(or conversely, Bond's age) for Casino Royale. I'm not huge on reboots(though Batman was done quite well) and changing major characters' sex or race seems pretty gimmicky. However, I'm a sucker for spy thrillers and so would probably give it a chance.
It's gimmicky to pick someone good for the job if their race happens to be different from the previous people who filled the role?
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 09:39:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 26, 2012, 09:20:51 PM
I don't see why not considering it alone, its not like Bond's appearance is consistant otherwise.
But making him black just for the sake of making him black and trying to be all modern and cool and that....nah
What about the sake of picking a good actor? :huh:
...would of course be fine.
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 09:43:54 PM
It's gimmicky to pick someone good for the job if their race happens to be different from the previous people who filled the role?
Are they really good for the job if their appearance isn't what the audience is expecting from the role? I mean, you wouldn't cast Kathy Bates as Helen of Troy, or Arnold Schwarzenegger as Seymour in Little Shop of Horrors.
There's nothing wrong with the concept of a British black superspy, but calling him James Bond is just an attempt to keep milking the name, a gimmick.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 09:43:54 PM
It's gimmicky to pick someone good for the job if their race happens to be different from the previous people who filled the role?
Are they really good for the job if their appearance isn't what the audience is expecting from the role? I mean, you wouldn't cast Kathy Bates as Helen of Troy, or Arnold Schwarzenegger as Seymour in Little Shop of Horrors.
There's nothing wrong with the concept of a British black superspy, but calling him James Bond is just an attempt to keep milking the name, a gimmick.
So if he acts like James Bond but isn't white then he's not what the audience expects or wants from the role? :hmm:
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 10:28:10 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 26, 2012, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 09:43:54 PM
It's gimmicky to pick someone good for the job if their race happens to be different from the previous people who filled the role?
Are they really good for the job if their appearance isn't what the audience is expecting from the role? I mean, you wouldn't cast Kathy Bates as Helen of Troy, or Arnold Schwarzenegger as Seymour in Little Shop of Horrors.
There's nothing wrong with the concept of a British black superspy, but calling him James Bond is just an attempt to keep milking the name, a gimmick.
So if he acts like James Bond but isn't white then he's not what the audience expects or wants from the role? :hmm:
Like the great moan of audience disappointment with Morgan Freeman playing God. :(
Quote from: Ideologue on October 26, 2012, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 26, 2012, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 05:08:27 PM
How so, M?
Well, I think Idris Elba could totally pull it off. He has that suave, sexy attitude that makes Bond Bond. But James has always been white. So, it would take a big leap for me to accept someone who is not white for the role. Doesn't mean that I can't/won't make it, but it will still be a bit of a jolt on some level.
See, I'm not usually for race-blind casting, because a character's race usually informs their character to such a degree that by changing their race you are radically changing their character (you cannot, for example, just cast a black dude as Superman and say, "Diversity!", for example, although as times move forward, it's becoming less of an issue; and Nick Fury as a black guy is really problematic if you retain Nick Fury's original backstory, almost as problematic as making Captain America black; casting black Norse gods is actually, maybe ironically, far less quarrelsome because that modern kind of racism didn't exist on the Gothic steppe where those guys originated).
But James Bond? Fuck it. I've been waiting for years for the Bond movie where they finally pull the trigger on the concept and the Bond played by the marquee actor actually dies at the end of the first act, to be replaced by the new model 007. James Bond is a caricature, or more charitably multiple characters filling one role, not an integral character to himself.
Also: I'd vote for Chiwetel Ejiofor. I hear Idris Elba's name a lot, but I've never seen him in anything but Prometheus and that movie suuuuucked, and he really was not that great in it. OH HE CAN DO A SOUTHERN ACCENT WHAT A MAMMOTH TALENT YOU HAVE. But I guess he'd be fine, sure.
Son, watch some Wire. Elba exudes the definition of bad ass.
A very fine actor in The Wire, though not a good demonstration of ability to play the Bond character. The quiet competence from the former role doesn't work for the flashy, suave latter. But then, the later bonds, especially Dalton on, are a pretty harsh clash from the Connery Bond (my favorite).
But granted, I haven't seen enough of his range of work to judge if he could pull off the role.
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 06:10:09 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:04:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 06:00:27 PM
If you make bond black you will have to explain why he is black...
:unsure:
While if you make Bond Irish or Scottish, or Australian then you don't need to explain. If having a black bond is ok, why isn't anybody thinking about a chinese bond?
I don't follow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz0rGmc5u_c
Sweden is pretty neat. :)
Why are people worrying about the British accent btw?
Quote from: The Brain on October 27, 2012, 12:19:37 AM
Why are people worrying about the British accent btw?
Are you suggesting we should not be put off is 007 had...say...a Polish accent? :P
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 27, 2012, 12:20:45 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 27, 2012, 12:19:37 AM
Why are people worrying about the British accent btw?
Are you suggesting we should not be put off is 007 had...say...a Polish accent? :P
Well, worrying that a British actor wouldn't use a British accent seems somewhat irrational.
About Bond's ancestry: I've met several ultra-Swedish people who were black as pitch or brown as... something brown. I'm sure adoption occurs in the UK as well.
I don't see a black Bond as something of an issue. There's black British actors who would fill this role pretty well.
I think the far, far bigger leap would be if he was a Brit with Indian or Pakistani background. Though a Sikh Bond would be badass, I guess.
I don't think it would be a problem provided that the film was set in current times. If it was set in the 1960s then it would either look odd or involve substantial recognition within the film.
Some black people and some people with Indian sub-continent backgrounds can be incredibly British btw, more than some of the whites. Bond's defensive, not quite pukka, poshness could be very well portrayed by the right Indian actor.
Quote from: Neil on October 26, 2012, 08:29:18 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 26, 2012, 08:03:03 PM
I'm just worried that what happened to Mission Impossible happens to James Bond. MI was a genre and the Movie went out of it's way to demolish everything about it. It because a generic action thriller with a name which had caché. You can make an action thriller and call it bond, but if you don't follow the genre then it won't be bond, it will just be an action movie. The genre rules mean that the viewers do know what to expect and thus are willing to pay because they want more of it.
Hasn't this already happened?
Some argue that I agree. I do see the Brosnan and Craig Bond's being within the genre though. Cruise' MI quickly wiped out any pretense of fitting genre in the first act of MI 1
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 27, 2012, 02:53:43 AM
I don't think it would be a problem provided that the film was set in current times. If it was set in the 1960s then it would either look odd or involve substantial recognition within the film.
Some black people and some people with Indian sub-continent backgrounds can be incredibly British btw, more than some of the whites. Bond's defensive, not quite pukka, poshness could be very well portrayed by the right Indian actor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h-t8vVi0zc
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 27, 2012, 02:53:43 AM
I don't think it would be a problem provided that the film was set in current times. If it was set in the 1960s then it would either look odd or involve substantial recognition within the film.
Some black people and some people with Indian sub-continent backgrounds can be incredibly British btw, more than some of the whites. Bond's defensive, not quite pukka, poshness could be very well portrayed by the right Indian actor.
Though, I suspect that it will deal with the issue more like the BBC does ethnic minorities with ostensibly white characters; demonstrate that they live and work happily in a multicultural (meaning multiracial) world. Bond is going to get more black and asian colleagues, enemies and bond girls before going ethnic. I suspect a black or asian Q is more likely than a black bond.
They already tried a black Bond, he was called xXx.
Elba would be the best possible new Bond. I really hope he gets to do it. I think he'd actually develop/continue the whole vibe Bond's had under Craig (which was a more jarring shift than skin colour) which'd be good.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 26, 2012, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 26, 2012, 06:20:23 PM
Hey, garbo, as a black man on black issues, what are your opinions of race blind casting in general? Basically what I'm asking for is that you fully validate my opinions. :)
Sorry but what you posted seems backwards to me.
Actually to expand on that - I think racial based casting only makes sense if you are either a) trying to highlight the effects of racism in the work (so it wouldn't make sense to have white women playing the black roles in The Help) or you're trying to get at a culture/sub-culture where it would be awkward if you didn't pick someone of that race (like Tyler Perry films).
So I guess that kind of goes with what you said though I'd say something like Nick Fury doesn't fit as his original backstory has no role in the film and as such his race doesn't really matter.
It is a little off putting in a historical film. If FDR is played by a Pakistani actor, it's a bit strange. I would make an exception with a Shakespearean play, when you pick someone to play Henry V, you aren't actually playing the historical king, you are playing character a from the play who is essentially a distinct character.
I liked it fine in Luhrman's Romeo and Juliet,
except they cast a white guy as Paris. Paris' truncated role is about my only complaint with the film. The whole point is that the violence could not be contained within the Montagues and Capulets, and thus "all are punish'd" equally, which doesn't work without Paris' death and his connection to the princely family. So, you know, he should have looked like the Prince and Mercutio.
BTW
fuck. I just looked to see when exactly Luhrman's Gatsby was coming out this December so I could accurately state how many days it is till release. Well, try about 180. <_<
Maybe they're reshooting with a black Gatsby. And maybe Leonardo DiCaprio should have played Django. See, these being preposterous is what I mean when I say that race-blind casting has to approached very carefully.
Quote from: Barrister on October 26, 2012, 05:03:43 PM
Surprisingly, I could totally see a black 007. Just as long as he still has an english accent.
Why? Sean Connery didn't.
Idris Elba has the perfect public school English accent when he isn't playing a Bawmer drug kingpin.
As he said in an interview, "I wouldn't want to be known as the black James Bond, after all no-one calls Connery the Scottish James Bond."
No actors who have played him meet the description from the books, though perhaps Lazenby came closest. From Wiki:
QuoteIn the novels (notably From Russia, with Love), Bond's physical description has generally been consistent: slim build; a three-inch long, thin vertical scar on his right cheek; blue-grey eyes; a "cruel" mouth; short, black hair, a comma of which falls on his forehead. Physically he is described as 183 centimetres (6 feet) in height and 76 kilograms (167 lb) in weight. After Casino Royale, Bond also had the faint scar of the Russian cyrillic letter "Ш" (SH) (for Shpion: "Spy") on the back of one of his hands, carved by a SMERSH agent.
Here's how Fleming sketched him:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc5%2FFleming007impression.jpg%2F200px-Fleming007impression.jpg&hash=8069b6a3dd290153820f6fc9a21bfda83a33853a)
So that'd be a young Peter Cushing?
Quote from: Syt on October 29, 2012, 05:25:11 AM
So that'd be a young Peter Cushing?
Fleming likens his appearance to musician Hoagy Carmichael's.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe9%2FHoagyCarmichael.jpg&hash=9c79ef1d76541ad959fe99383d0fb93561afa481)
Quote from: Ideologue on October 28, 2012, 11:39:44 PM
See, these being preposterous is what I mean when I say that race-blind casting has to approached very carefully.
I'm sorry for your racial hangups? :console:
You know what would be a refreshing change? A British actor who did not attend a private school or Oxbridge or make his name with a believable American accent achieving any sort of critical acclaim <_<
Quote from: Brazen on October 29, 2012, 07:47:03 AM
You know what would be a refreshing change? A British actor who did not attend a private school or Oxbridge or make his name with a believable American accent achieving any sort of critical acclaim <_<
That sounds like an issue for you Brits to sort out.
Quote from: Brazen on October 29, 2012, 07:47:03 AM
You know what would be a refreshing change? A British actor who did not attend a private school or Oxbridge or make his name with a believable American accent achieving any sort of critical acclaim <_<
Peter Capaldi
Simon Pegg
Sean Connery
Charlie Chaplin
Dick Bogarde
Brian Blessed
Dozens more, but I'm getting bored.
Saw Skyfall last night. Very dubious plot but great action scenes, goot touches of humour and well-acted. Certainly the best Bond since Connery and arguable the best of the lot.
Quote from: Gups on October 30, 2012, 09:03:25 AM
Saw Skyfall last night. Very dubious plot but great action scenes, goot touches of humour and well-acted. Certainly the best Bond since Connery and arguable the best of the lot.
How did Bardem fare as the villain?
Superb - camp & menancing can be hard to pull off but he did it beautifully.
Quote from: Neil on October 26, 2012, 05:30:27 PM
007 isn't a man so much as he is a title, and the cardinal rule is that if he's cool, it's all good.
Late to the thread. I agree. It doesnt matter what colour the skin is as long as the actor can pull off being Bond.
Quote from: Brazen on October 29, 2012, 07:47:03 AM
You know what would be a refreshing change? A British actor who did not attend a private school or Oxbridge or make his name with a believable American accent achieving any sort of critical acclaim <_<
Does Michael Caine not count?