I felt like this needed its own thread.
So, is Biden going to wipe the floor with The Youngen'? Or is Paul going to kick Joe in the teeth? Predictions? Bets? What say you, Languish?
I predict Biden will make hilarious verbal gaffs and Ryan will savagely attack things he previously was in favor of. Should be good quality reality TV.
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2012, 01:17:08 PM
I predict Biden will make hilarious verbal gaffs and Ryan will savagely attack things he previously was in favor of. Should be good quality reality TV.
Electoral version of Jersey Shore? :unsure:
I think the Dems will try to fool everyone by replacing Biden with a gaffe-proof RoboJoe.
Anywho, I would think Ryan, being a bit younger and sharper, would mop the floor with a not-aging-too-well Biden. But debates often tend to turn out contrary to conventional wisdom, and Crazy Joe has a history of good debate performance.
So the safest prediction for me is a draw. Ryan will say something that people will take out of context and try to use against him, while Biden will half-ass a couple one-liners and will receive adulation because, well, bless his heart he's trying.
Quote from: merithyn on October 10, 2012, 01:19:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2012, 01:17:08 PM
I predict Biden will make hilarious verbal gaffs and Ryan will savagely attack things he previously was in favor of. Should be good quality reality TV.
Electoral version of Jersey Shore? :unsure:
The Situation on the end of Jersey Shore:
QuoteIt will take a number of years to try to forget what we've done.
I'll make an effort to see this, should be entertaining.
What time is it one ? (EST is what +5GMT ?)
Quote from: mongers on October 10, 2012, 01:49:52 PM
I'll make an effort to see this, should be entertaining.
What time is it one ? (EST is what +5GMT ?)
Looks like it starts in 6 hours.
Quote from: sbr on October 10, 2012, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 10, 2012, 01:49:52 PM
I'll make an effort to see this, should be entertaining.
What time is it one ? (EST is what +5GMT ?)
Looks like it starts in 6 hours.
6+24 hours, anyway ;)
Joe has won the race for low expectations before it even started. Any performance where he doesn't drool while crapping his pants will be considered a decisive draw at the very least.
However, I predict that not only will Joe Biden successfully fight back saliva and feces, but that he'll actually get the better of Ryan by a modest margin. Unlike Romney, who has to play dumb for his party, Ryan actually is a total flake with no substance.
I am fascinated by how much play such a minor role in your government gets. I understand the one heartbeat away thing but I think you guys take it a bit far. Does anyone actually vote based on the fact that the VP might one day be president if the current president comes to some tragic end?
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 03:43:43 PM
I am fascinated by how much play such a minor role in your government gets. I understand the one heartbeat away thing but I think you guys take it a bit far. Does anyone actually vote based on the fact that the VP might one day be president if the current president comes to some tragic end?
Berkut? :unsure:
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 03:43:43 PM
I am fascinated by how much play such a minor role in your government gets. I understand the one heartbeat away thing but I think you guys take it a bit far. Does anyone actually vote based on the fact that the VP might one day be president if the current president comes to some tragic end?
McCain/Palin
Prediction: Derspeiss is going to say Ryan won.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 03:43:43 PM
Does anyone actually vote based on the fact that the VP might one day be president if the current president comes to some tragic end?
I dunno...people like my Dad, whose vote McCain had locked up until he picked you-know-who, seemed to take the veep candidate pretty seriously. No way in holy hell did he want that fruit cake anywhere near the Oval Office.
And I specifically recall a couple acquaintances whose vote for Dukakis was cemented with the hope that he'd die in the middle of the inauguration so Lloyd Bentsen could take his rightful place upon the throne.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 03:43:43 PM
I am fascinated by how much play such a minor role in your government gets. I understand the one heartbeat away thing but I think you guys take it a bit far. Does anyone actually vote based on the fact that the VP might one day be president if the current president comes to some tragic end?
Yeah. This one gets me as well. What was it John Adams famously said:
"the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination conceived."
Quote from: frunk on October 10, 2012, 03:45:16 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 03:43:43 PM
I am fascinated by how much play such a minor role in your government gets. I understand the one heartbeat away thing but I think you guys take it a bit far. Does anyone actually vote based on the fact that the VP might one day be president if the current president comes to some tragic end?
McCain/Palin
Granted that was a reflection on McCain's lack of judgment. But did anyone actually have to see a VP debate to understand that?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2012, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 03:43:43 PM
Does anyone actually vote based on the fact that the VP might one day be president if the current president comes to some tragic end?
I dunno...people like my Dad, whose vote McCain had locked up until he picked you-know-who, seemed to take the veep candidate pretty seriously. No way in holy hell did he want that fruit cake anywhere near the Oval Office.
And I specifically recall a couple acquaintances whose vote for Dukakis was cemented with the hope that he'd die in the middle of the inauguration so Lloyd Bentsen could take his rightful place upon the throne.
I guess I cant relate. Nobody cares who the might take over as PM if the current PM dies. We vote assuming the PM isnt going to die - and in Jack Layton's case even knowing he is ill.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 04:01:58 PM
Granted that was a reflection on McCain's lack of judgment.
Also a reflection of his possible health. I mean, the man's a fucking American hero, but he's not put together as well anymore after he ejected in Truc Bac Lake. And I mean his physical health; I didn't buy that bullshit Bush whisper campaign about his mind before the South Carolina primaries in 2000. Fucker's still sharp as a tack.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2012, 04:07:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 04:01:58 PM
Granted that was a reflection on McCain's lack of judgment.
Also a reflection of his possible health. I mean, the man's a fucking American hero, but he's not put together as well anymore after he ejected in Truc Bac Lake. And I mean his physical health; I didn't buy that bullshit Bush whisper campaign about his mind before the South Carolina primaries in 2000. Fucker's still sharp as a tack.
What I am getting at is it seems a peculiar American obsession. In our last election a leader who was open about his health troubles also won a historic vote for his party and became leader of the opposition.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 04:09:43 PM
What I am getting at is it seems a peculiar American obsession. In our last election a leader who was open about his health troubles also won a historic vote for his party and became leader of the opposition.
There are a substantial number of Americans who were very much alive the last time a US President was assassinated, and witnessed how the trajectory of the nation was substantially altered, thank you very much.
There's nothing peculiar or obsessive about it. It's a bona fide concern, and it should be for most of the world. JFK > Thomas D'Arcy McGee
I'd also like to point out that given a tie in the Senate, the VP decides. With things being as contentious as they are, that could be a major factor. Sure, he/she is likely to vote along the party lines regardless of who he/she is, but it could still be a dicey situation.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2012, 04:18:15 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 04:09:43 PM
What I am getting at is it seems a peculiar American obsession. In our last election a leader who was open about his health troubles also won a historic vote for his party and became leader of the opposition.
There are a substantial number of Americans who were very much alive the last time a US President was assassinated, and witnessed how the trajectory of the nation was substantially altered, thank you very much.
There's nothing peculiar or obsessive about it. It's a bona fide concern, and it should be for most of the world. JFK > Thomas D'Arcy McGee
Yeah, you have probably identified why it is a peculiarly American obsession. You guys shoot way too may of your politicians.
Quote from: merithyn on October 10, 2012, 04:20:08 PM
I'd also like to point out that given a tie in the Senate, the VP decides. With things being as contentious as they are, that could be a major factor. Sure, he/she is likely to vote along the party lines regardless of who he/she is, but it could still be a dicey situation.
But it doesnt matter who the VP is - he or she will always vote with the party. Its just a process thing - even Palin could have done that.
I am hoping for an entertaining cripple fight.
Who will be Jimmy and who will be Timmy? :unsure:
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 04:20:41 PM
Yeah, you have probably identified why it is a peculiarly American obsession. You guys shoot way too may of your politicians.
Maybe but we have only succeeded in actually killing four of them. And all between 1864 and 1964.
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2012, 04:53:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 04:20:41 PM
Yeah, you have probably identified why it is a peculiarly American obsession. You guys shoot way too may of your politicians.
Maybe but we have only succeeded in actually killing four of them. And all between 1864 and 1964.
How many of your politicians have been shot or shot at?
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 04:54:24 PM
How many of your politicians have been shot or shot at?
Not nearly enough.
Ugh, another one. I guess I'll end up watching porno on Redtube.
Quote from: derspiess on October 10, 2012, 02:35:22 PM
Quote from: sbr on October 10, 2012, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 10, 2012, 01:49:52 PM
I'll make an effort to see this, should be entertaining.
What time is it one ? (EST is what +5GMT ?)
Looks like it starts in 6 hours.
6+24 hours, anyway ;)
:D Meh, whatever I was right about the time, just not the day.
I love Biden :blush:
Quote from: Razgovory on October 10, 2012, 03:48:39 PM
Prediction: Derspeiss is going to say Ryan won.
Shit, I'll go ahead and say it now if you want.
btw... 'rumble in Columbus'? Isn't the debate going to be held in Danville, KY? :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on October 10, 2012, 07:50:02 PM
btw... 'rumble in Columbus'? Isn't the debate going to be held in Danville, KY? :huh:
LOL. WOMEN. :rolleyes:
Quote from: derspiess on October 10, 2012, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 10, 2012, 03:48:39 PM
Prediction: Derspeiss is going to say Ryan won.
Shit, I'll go ahead and say it now if you want.
You may as well. Ryan could walk out on stage with out pants and take a big shit on the floor you'd lap it right up.
Wow, derspiess is German :o
:lol: You're gross, Raz.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 10, 2012, 08:00:14 PM
Wow, derspiess is German :o
I thought that was obvious from the name.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/bidens-handlers-suggesting-he-forget-the-words-pin,29870/
QuoteBiden's Handlers Suggesting He Forget The Words 'Pink' and 'Stink' Altogether
WILMINGTON, DE—While attempting to prepare the vice president for tomorrow night's debate against Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), Joe Biden's staff members reportedly suggested he forget the words "pink" and "stink" altogether before taking the stage. "You know what, given the context of this particular debate and everything, I think maybe it's best to avoid using the words 'pink' or 'stink' at all, and certainly never in the same sentence," longtime Biden adviser Mike Donilon was overheard telling the 69-year-old politician during debate preparations this week, also reminding him to avoid any mention of "muffs," "tang," "cooze" and to definitely not do "the shocker" hand gesture while walking to the podium. "This is a very important night for us, Joe, and if you could try to stay on message as much as possible that would be, you know, ideal. Also, don't do that thing where you smell your finger." At press time, sources said Biden had assured Donilon he would do his best, but couldn't guarantee he wouldn't "pop wood" at some point during the debate.
Romney's numbers continue to increase.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/oct-9-romney-erases-obamas-convention-bounce-in-forecast/#more-35789
I hope if he does manage to win it's because of an electoral vote tie 269-269. That way we can have the hilarious experience of a Romney-Biden administration.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 10, 2012, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: Caliga on October 10, 2012, 07:50:02 PM
btw... 'rumble in Columbus'? Isn't the debate going to be held in Danville, KY? :huh:
LOL. WOMEN. :rolleyes:
Meh. I thought NPR said Columbus and ran with it. Didn't bother to see if I'd heard right. I knew one (or two) of you asshats would enjoy correcting me. :P
Quote from: merithyn on October 10, 2012, 09:47:04 PM
Meh. I thought NPR said Columbus and ran with it. Didn't bother to see if I'd heard right. I knew one (or two) of you asshats would enjoy correcting me. :P
Don't you fret, dear. Joe Biden loves you anyway. :hug: THATS WHAT MAKES HIM BETTER
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2012, 09:49:09 PM
Don't you fret, dear. Joe Biden loves you anyway. :hug: THATS WHAT MAKES HIM BETTER
Biden :wub:
Incidentally I love this image of Biden terrorising the electorate, one voter at a time:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theatlanticwire.com%2Fimg%2Fupload%2F2012%2F09%2F24%2FAP290824181770_1%2Flarge.jpg&hash=f2bbe8ce8caa651949da5cb28d413828d59280a1)
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 12:13:25 AM
Incidentally I love this image of Biden terrorising the electorate, one voter at a time:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theatlanticwire.com%2Fimg%2Fupload%2F2012%2F09%2F24%2FAP290824181770_1%2Flarge.jpg&hash=f2bbe8ce8caa651949da5cb28d413828d59280a1)
"I'm actually the chairman of the death panel."
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 12:13:25 AM
Incidentally I love this image of Biden terrorising the electorate, one voter at a time:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.randompicturesblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2Ffunny-joe-biden-picture.jpg&hash=0461855f0d87503f9dd4697b2bb55eccdcb6a040)
:lol: :wub:
And let's never forget the inane question asked in a 2008 debate: what do you like most about the candidate to your left? Biden, turned to Kucinich and said 'the thing I like most about you Dennis, is your wife' :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 12:39:19 AM
And let's never forget the inane question asked in a 2008 debate: what do you like most about the candidate to your left? Biden, turned to Kucinich and said 'the thing I like most about you Dennis, is your wife' :lol:
And he was right!
Good breakdown on where the race stands by Nate Silver.
Looks like if the race was held today Obama might win the electoral vote and Romney the popular.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/oct-10-is-romney-leading-right-now/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
QuoteThursday at 8pm EDT/7pm CDT, Vice President Joe Biden will be taking over @OnionPolitics and will live-tweet his debate with Paul Ryan.
Quote from: DGuller on October 10, 2012, 03:39:41 PM
Any performance where he doesn't drool while crapping his pants will be considered a decisive draw at the very least.
And yet, Biden is apparently considering a Presidential run in 2016. :ph34r:
Quote from: Kleves on October 11, 2012, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 10, 2012, 03:39:41 PM
Any performance where he doesn't drool while crapping his pants will be considered a decisive draw at the very least.
And yet, Biden is apparently considering a Presidential run in 2016. :ph34r:
:blink:
He'd be 73! I know people are living longer, but criminy!
Quote from: Kleves on October 11, 2012, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 10, 2012, 03:39:41 PM
Any performance where he doesn't drool while crapping his pants will be considered a decisive draw at the very least.
And yet, Biden is apparently considering a Presidential run in 2016. :ph34r:
Man, would that be a hoot.
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 11:38:10 AM
Man, would that be a hoot.
Any more or less of a hoot than it was in 2008, derfetus?
BTW, here's my source for that claim: http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/08/report-biden-laying-the-groundwork-for-133294.html (http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/08/report-biden-laying-the-groundwork-for-133294.html)
Quote from: Kleves on October 11, 2012, 11:44:09 AM
BTW, here's my source for that claim:
It's nothing we haven't already known about for over a year. Meri, not so much, maybe.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 11:39:31 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 11:38:10 AM
Man, would that be a hoot.
Any more or less of a hoot than it was in 2008, derfetus?
I'd say at least 20x more. Biden had at least a few lucid moments then. By 2016 he'll be in one of those Dutch dementia villages.
Quote from: Kleves on October 11, 2012, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 10, 2012, 03:39:41 PM
Any performance where he doesn't drool while crapping his pants will be considered a decisive draw at the very least.
And yet, Biden is apparently considering a Presidential run in 2016. :ph34r:
:hmm: I guess we will all be crapping our pants if that happens.
I don't think he's really that stupid. Certainly not as much as Republicans claim he is. If he was a Republican they'd simply say he was a "straight talker".
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2012, 12:46:20 PM
I don't think he's really that stupid. Certainly not as much as Republicans claim he is. If he was a Republican they'd simply say he was a "straight talker".
If he were a Republican he'd have been ravaged by the press and forcibly retired by the time of Gaffe #2 or #3-- whichever those were.
STAND UP, CHUCK!!
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 12:55:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2012, 12:46:20 PM
I don't think he's really that stupid. Certainly not as much as Republicans claim he is. If he was a Republican they'd simply say he was a "straight talker".
If he were a Republican he'd have been ravaged by the press and forcibly retired by the time of Gaffe #2 or #3-- whichever those were.
STAND UP, CHUCK!!
Exactly! Just like they did to Quayle! Oh wait.. I mean Bush Jr! Oh wait...
:P
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 12:55:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2012, 12:46:20 PM
I don't think he's really that stupid. Certainly not as much as Republicans claim he is. If he was a Republican they'd simply say he was a "straight talker".
If he were a Republican he'd have been ravaged by the press and forcibly retired by the time of Gaffe #2 or #3-- whichever those were.
STAND UP, CHUCK!!
Exactly! Just like they did to Quayle! Oh wait.. I mean Bush Jr! Oh wait...
:P
Odd choices. Both of those individuals had political careers that lasted about 2 decades.
Quote from: Syt on October 11, 2012, 12:27:23 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 12:13:25 AM
Incidentally I love this image of Biden terrorising the electorate, one voter at a time:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.randompicturesblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2Ffunny-joe-biden-picture.jpg&hash=0461855f0d87503f9dd4697b2bb55eccdcb6a040)
:lol: :wub:
If that sheriff who I think it is, he got tossed from his job for assaulting one of his female deputies.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 01:26:37 PM
Exactly! Just like they did to Quayle! Oh wait.. I mean Bush Jr! Oh wait...
:P
Odd choices. Both of those individuals had political careers that lasted about 2 decades.
That was my point. Both were Republicans known for their gaffes and mistakes when speaking off the cuff, and yet neither were drummed out of politics or any particular race for that matter.
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 01:26:37 PM
Exactly! Just like they did to Quayle! Oh wait.. I mean Bush Jr! Oh wait...
:P
Odd choices. Both of those individuals had political careers that lasted about 2 decades.
That was my point. Both were Republicans known for their gaffes and mistakes when speaking off the cuff, and yet neither were drummed out of politics or any particular race for that matter.
Both had careers notably shorter than Biden's. :secret:
That said I agree with you that making gaffes isn't really an issue if people still continue to like/respect the politician.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 01:50:39 PM
Both had careers notably shorter than Biden's. :secret:
That said I agree with you that making gaffes isn't really an issue if people still continue to like/respect the politician.
One can't really claim that two decades is "short" for a career, though, especially in politics where a four-year stint could be all one gets.
Joe Biden is good people.
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 01:50:39 PM
Both had careers notably shorter than Biden's. :secret:
That said I agree with you that making gaffes isn't really an issue if people still continue to like/respect the politician.
One can't really claim that two decades is "short" for a career, though, especially in politics where a four-year stint could be all one gets.
Depends on where the gaffe factor comes in. Isn't Quayle most famous for gaffes near the end of his career?
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:00:14 PM
Depends on where the gaffe factor comes in. Isn't Quayle most famous for gaffes near the end of his career?
I thought he was pretty well-known for them throughout his career. They just became more pronounced when he hit The Big Game as VP.
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 02:03:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:00:14 PM
Depends on where the gaffe factor comes in. Isn't Quayle most famous for gaffes near the end of his career?
I thought he was pretty well-known for them throughout his career. They just became more pronounced when he hit The Big Game as VP.
I don't know. I was only born towards the end. :D
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 02:03:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:00:14 PM
Depends on where the gaffe factor comes in. Isn't Quayle most famous for gaffes near the end of his career?
I thought he was pretty well-known for them throughout his career. They just became more pronounced when he hit The Big Game as VP.
He didn't have nearly as many as Biden. I can only think of two off the top of my head, plus several urban legends attributed to him.
And you mentioned Dubya-- it's not like he was going to fire himself.
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 02:03:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 02:00:14 PM
Depends on where the gaffe factor comes in. Isn't Quayle most famous for gaffes near the end of his career?
I thought he was pretty well-known for them throughout his career. They just became more pronounced when he hit The Big Game as VP.
He didn't have nearly as many as Biden. I can only think of two off the top of my head, plus several urban legends attributed to him.
And you mentioned Dubya-- it's not like he was going to fire himself.
Really, you do a comparative study?
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 01:50:39 PM
That said I agree with you that making gaffes isn't really an issue if people still continue to like/respect the politician.
I actually think it makes people like a politician more as long as they're charming, funny or understandable and they've give some impression of solidity and substance - like Bush or Biden or Ford (I think). The only people who moan about it look like dicks.
It's quite helpful for the politician, because if they've got that reputation it means they really have to fuck up bad for a gaffe to cause them serious damage.
Sometimes gaffes can be an issue though mainly if they point to a larger truth/indicate what the politician's really thinking ('47%', 'clinging', 'you're likeable enough', 'that one') - or if they expose you as entirely unsuited to any position of responsibility (Palin).
I like Paul's tie a bit more than Joe's, but they're both subpar.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2012, 05:41:58 PM
Really, you do a comparative study?
Yeah. Wanna see it?
Joe, Joe, Joe...should've answered the question.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 08:04:00 PM
I like Paul's tie a bit more than Joe's, but they're both subpar.
Joe's looks....okay....from across the room here. Can't get a good look at Paul's. The ABC logo is gigantic and they're only showing split screen stuff right now (I just got home).
Ryan's had a few brain farts and used bad grammar :(
Who knew Obama has been moonlighting as a technician in the Iranian nuclear program.
Both ties are subpar, I prefer Biden's (Paul, purple-and-red?!). Ryan seems a bit confused once he moves past his first statement - leaping around from issue to issue.
I think Biden looks contemptuous in a good way. More Bentsen than Gore.
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 08:13:20 PM
Ryan's had a few brain farts and used bad grammar :(
I don't like his voice: it's too..adolescent.
Biden is fatherly. :wub:
'The most crippling sanctions in the history of sanctions' :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 08:16:11 PM
'The most crippling sanctions in the history of sanctions' :lol:
Doesn't get much more sanctiony than that, buddy.
Joe seems...used car salesman-like. Kind of.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 08:15:12 PM
Both ties are subpar, I prefer Biden's (Paul, purple-and-red?!).
Yeah, I just got a good look at it. Also not a fan of the red and blue or purple, whatever the second color is. Gotta go with Biden's here.
E: The dimple in Ryan's tie is better though. Joe's looks like mine when I'm in a big hurry. :P
I love Biden's grin when Ryan says 'let's look at this from the view of the Ayatollahs' - which is something that probably no American politician should ever say on national TV :lol:
Best gaff of the evening so far ..... by the moderator, nuclear war. :lol:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on October 11, 2012, 08:17:40 PM
Joe seems...used car salesman-like. Kind of.
You make it sound like that's new.
How many times can he namedrop 'Bibi'? :blink:
"This is a bunch of stuff" :lol:
https://twitter.com/onionpolitics
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fa1CKr.jpg&hash=6d0cb23aeb75b98e77a48dbcda8573a498eb414d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJXsuq.jpg&hash=30c7196ff1b6af06cada915f88a8a5a6d5a57856)
Love Biden, giving the moderator a dressing down.
QuoteTweets
4m Diamond Joe Diamond Joe @OnionPolitics
Hey @BarackObama, that's how you make a fucking point #debates
6:17 PM - 11 Oct 12 · Details
7m Diamond Joe Diamond Joe @OnionPolitics
I'm giggling because I'm fucking blazed #debates
So Biden answers a question about unemployment by bitching about the tax rate Romney pays?
Biden is doing the bit about the 47% that Obama should have done in the first debate.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 11, 2012, 08:21:12 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJXsuq.jpg&hash=30c7196ff1b6af06cada915f88a8a5a6d5a57856)
I think Joe Scarborough said it best this morning when he called the pics something straight out of a 80s sitcom.
I think Biden's anger worked there. And 'you don't read the statistics, it's going down' was a good line.
This area should be Ryan's strongest.
Good Lord. Ryan's allegedly a policy wonk but he raises energy independence bullshit as is first point :bleeding:
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 08:26:03 PM
So Biden answers a question about unemployment by bitching about the tax rate Romney pays?
Should've mentioned the 21 straight jobs bills that Congress has killed instead.
30% of charity? Yeah, to the Mormon Church. I don't recall seeing Romney's name on the ASPCA Guardian list.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 08:27:36 PM
Good Lord. Ryan's allegedly a policy wonk but he raises energy independence bullshit as is first point :bleeding:
What, you don't think North America can't be 100% energy independent?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 08:29:13 PM
30% of charity? Yeah, to the Mormon Church. I don't recall seeing Romney's name on the ASPCA Guardian list.
Or Planned Parenthood's gold star donor list, for that matter. COME ON, MAN!!
'But I always mean what I say' was an effective undercut to Ryan's best moment.
I LOVE this moderator. Admittedly she is here as part of a care in the community program.
QuoteWhat, you don't think North America can't be 100% energy independent?
It's not a serious policy. It's up there with 'economic patriotism' and 'moon colonies'.
On substance Biden is winning, but I really don't if his laughing and smirk is gonna go down well. It's rather disrespectful.
Yeah I was going to say he needs to stop laughing.
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 08:31:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 08:29:13 PM
30% of charity? Yeah, to the Mormon Church. I don't recall seeing Romney's name on the ASPCA Guardian list.
Or Planned Parenthood's gold star donor list, for that matter. COME ON, MAN!!
Well, I think his statements about PP are well known. But did he make amends for Seamus? I think not, my friend.
That personal charity story comes over as somewhat wrong; if you're in trouble or down on your luck, trust in the random generosity of millionaires.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 08:33:21 PM
Yeah I was going to say he needs to stop laughing.
He's in the Giggly Joe Phase right now, it's still early; as things progress, that'll drop, and he'll go into Angry Joe Phase.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 08:33:21 PM
Yeah I was going to say he needs to stop laughing.
Sometimes, sometimes it works. But I agree with this tweet by Ben Smith: 'It's like forceful & convincing Biden vs. smirking/slightly off-rails Biden with Ryan moderating.'
Joe's smirking really is getting out of hand.
Finally, somebody in a debate explained what actually happened to the $700: it's not going to the insurance companies anymore.
I watched bits of the RNC. The biggest surprise and thing I didn't get was that the dislike of Biden and that many of them genuinely seemed to believe that his gaffes was because he was pretty thick. I think they maybe misunderestimated him.
QuoteDiamond Joe @DiamondJoeBiden
The entire middle east is on fire and WHERE ARE MY PANTS DAMMIT!?
:lol:
Love Biden looking at the camera and directly addressing the OAPs/retires. :D
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 08:38:47 PM
QuoteDiamond Joe @DiamondJoeBiden
The entire middle east is on fire and WHERE ARE MY PANTS DAMMIT!?
:lol:
At least somebody else is enjoying it. :lol: It's better than the debate.
I love that the moderator's asking real questions rather than 'it would be fair to say, would it not, that you two differ on the deficit?' :bleeding:
I'm watching the Jeff Dunham Monsters special instead. I'll read thru this thread later. :)
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 08:38:19 PM
I watched bits of the RNC. The biggest surprise and thing I didn't get was that the dislike of Biden and that many of them genuinely seemed to believe that his gaffes was because he was pretty thick. I think they maybe misunderestimated him.
No excuse for making that mistake. Biden's been doing this forever. He knows what he's doing.
In a weird way Joe & Paul have some chemistry. When all this blows over they should do a speaking tour or something.
The moderator seems like she sucks. She's letting both of them interrupt each other constantly. If I wanted to hear a couple dudes talking over each other, I would have just stayed at the bar.
'Now you're Jack Kennedy.' Rude and a very, very bad moment for Biden.
See right here she needs to tell Joe to stfu.
This is getting out of hand. She needs to stop it now.
My favourite line so far 'he said, and I paraphr...' :lol:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 08:53:18 PM
This is getting out of hand. She needs to stop it now.
It's very parliamentary.
I don't normally watch these things but is it normal to have both moderator and a candidate interrupt the other candidate tag team style?
Also Ryan is very boring.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 08:52:47 PM
'Now you're Jack Kennedy.' Rude and a very, very bad moment for Biden.
Budgets is personal.
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 08:53:18 PM
This is getting out of hand. She needs to stop it now.
It's very parliamentary.
Maybe that's why I like it. If the crowd could cheer and jeer it would be perfect.
Neither one is pulling away with it; it's all fodder for each other's base. Biden's making it personal, and Ryan's making it wonky.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 08:58:11 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 08:53:18 PM
This is getting out of hand. She needs to stop it now.
It's very parliamentary.
Maybe that's why I like it. If the crowd could cheer and jeer it would be perfect.
Yeah, I agree, it seems more real with both the candidates sparing.
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 08:58:11 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 08:53:18 PM
This is getting out of hand. She needs to stop it now.
It's very parliamentary.
Maybe that's why I like it. If the crowd could cheer and jeer it would be perfect.
Yeah, I agree, it seems more real with both the candidates sparing.
Doesn't seem very classy to me...certainly not vice presidential.
Bravo, Reuters:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A4-IFEjCcAACo5K.jpg)
I wonder if Mr. Ryan has considered talking to the Kabul government about that first?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 09:02:40 PM
I wonder if Mr. Ryan has considered talking to the Kabul government about that first?
Yeah though it seems weird for Biden to say no matter what the situation is - we will leave in 2014.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:04:34 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 09:02:40 PM
I wonder if Mr. Ryan has considered talking to the Kabul government about that first?
Yeah though it seems weird for Biden to say no matter what the situation is - we will leave in 2014.
But you and I both know that's not going to be the case; thing is, you don't have to make that public knowledge.
If there's a compelling need to go back and kill people, we will be going back to do it.
The line 'let's move to another war' is very sad :(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 08:33:21 PM
Yeah I was going to say he needs to stop laughing.
He's in the Giggly Joe Phase right now, it's still early; as things progress, that'll drop, and he'll go into Angry Joe Phase.
Told you. Angry Joe smash.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 09:07:05 PM
But you and I both know that's not going to be the case; thing is, you don't have to make that public knowledge.
If there's a compelling need to go back and kill people, we will be going back to do it.
Wasn't that Ryan's point on why you should state a particular date on a calendar and say that's it, no matter what?
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:08:08 PM
The line 'let's move to another war' is very sad :(
:yes: :(
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 09:07:05 PM
But you and I both know that's not going to be the case; thing is, you don't have to make that public knowledge.
If there's a compelling need to go back and kill people, we will be going back to do it.
Wasn't that Ryan's point on why you should state a particular date on a calendar and say that's it, no matter what?
Kicks the Afghanis in the ass. But they don't have to know that.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 08:33:21 PM
Yeah I was going to say he needs to stop laughing.
He's in the Giggly Joe Phase right now, it's still early; as things progress, that'll drop, and he'll go into Angry Joe Phase.
Told you. Angry Joe smash.
:D
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 09:09:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 09:07:05 PM
But you and I both know that's not going to be the case; thing is, you don't have to make that public knowledge.
If there's a compelling need to go back and kill people, we will be going back to do it.
Wasn't that Ryan's point on why you should state a particular date on a calendar and say that's it, no matter what?
Kicks the Afghanis in the ass. But they don't have to know that.
So the American public is smart but they are dumb?
Two things. Ryan looks confused on foreign policy. He's pushing a very confused line that's hyper-critical of the Administration but is actually not different in any significant way.
Biden seems to be sailing very close to the wind with his comments about arming and supporting the rebels :mellow:
Oh snap, abortion.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:15:26 PM
Two things. Ryan looks confused on foreign policy. He's pushing a very confused line that's hyper-critical of the Administration but is actually not different in any significant way.
Yeah that's a difficulty in having to differentiate yourself when there isn't really a better course of action.
What a crap human interest question, tell us about your religion vis abortion.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 09:16:11 PM
Oh snap, abortion.
Right. Ryan should have said - pass!
Instead he's talking about Dems attacking religion.
What does 'friend' mean to Joe Biden?
Nice, measured response by Joe on that.
'A distinction without a difference' - with one phrase Ryan made himself sound like someone writing wall of texts online.
I expect him to inform us that correlation does not imply causation soon :mellow:
I love this line from Twitter: 'Biden completing the Full Al Pacino here. He's hit the delirious screamy highs. Now comin' down for the sincere gravely whisper.'
Always over the top.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:15:26 PM
Two things. Ryan looks confused on foreign policy. He's pushing a very confused line that's hyper-critical of the Administration but is actually not different in any significant way.
Biden seems to be sailing very close to the wind with his comments about arming and supporting the rebels :mellow:
That's probably because it's the facts of the matter, though I guess he shouldn't have alluded to it.
Though no doubt the Syrians and the Russians know that already.
Ryan's answer to this is bad. The question was about a veteran who was dismayed at the negative tone of the campaign. Ryan said 'I thank him for his service' and then went entirely negative. He didn't even say the stuff about some of the comments being a shame like Biden did.
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:15:26 PM
Two things. Ryan looks confused on foreign policy. He's pushing a very confused line that's hyper-critical of the Administration but is actually not different in any significant way.
Biden seems to be sailing very close to the wind with his comments about arming and supporting the rebels :mellow:
That's probably because it's the facts of the matter, though I guess he shouldn't have alluded to it.
Though no doubt the Syrians and the Russians know that already.
Yeah, an example on why topics like this isn't exactly a level playing field when it comes to national security issues: Veep knows stuff that Cheese Boy doesn't. There are bigger things going on behind the scenes.
Did Biden actually shout himself hoarse? :blink:
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:28:15 PM
Ryan's answer to this is bad. The question was about a veteran who was dismayed at the negative tone of the campaign. Ryan said 'I thank him for his service' and then went entirely negative. He didn't even say the stuff about some of the comments being a shame like Biden did.
Agreed though Biden's comments didn't warm me either as it was pretty clear he wasn't taken any ownership and claiming that it was just from the other camp.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:28:15 PM
Ryan's answer to this is bad. The question was about a veteran who was dismayed at the negative tone of the campaign. Ryan said 'I thank him for his service' and then went entirely negative. He didn't even say the stuff about some of the comments being a shame like Biden did.
Seriously?
Negative campaigning is America at its finest. All this fucking handwringing is big girls blouse bullshit.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:28:15 PM
Ryan's answer to this is bad. The question was about a veteran who was dismayed at the negative tone of the campaign. Ryan said 'I thank him for his service' and then went entirely negative. He didn't even say the stuff about some of the comments being a shame like Biden did.
He started out by criticizing Obama for going so negative. Which is absolutely true. Then yeah, he did go negative himself :P
Ryan makes me feel awkward as he stares and talks to me. :D
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:33:23 PM
Ryan makes me feel awkward as he stares and talks to me. :D
It's like he freezes you with his eyes before he envelopes you with his ears. It's like
Jeepers Creepers in a Brooks Brothers.
I caught the last 20 minutes or so. My impression - Biden was the class of the field.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2012, 09:36:48 PM
I caught the last 20 minutes or so. My impression - Biden was the class of the field.
I have to agree. Ryan seemed largely out of his league.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:37:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2012, 09:36:48 PM
I caught the last 20 minutes or so. My impression - Biden was the class of the field.
I have to agree. Ryan seemed largely out of his league.
Gotta give the kid credit, though, he hung in there even when he was getting a little lost. Thing was, he went after the debate like it was a House Committee session, a lot of fiscal references that may have gone over Johnny Six Pack's head.
I think Joe won, but it wasn't a KO in the 4th, it was on points.
Some of the BBC correspondents are calling it a draw, though one said whilst it was a draw between them, Ryan neither harmed nor helped Romney, whereas Biden did help the Obama.
I enjoyed this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/eloquent-biden-brings-entire-audience-to-tears-in,29887/
For myself I love Biden and his style, but I thought that was generally a brilliant performance. He's running in 2016 and I will try and illegally donate :lol:
Ryan was good and got stronger. I think he was a bit flummoxed on foreign policy, especially the first two questions. I also think he was initially disconcerted by Biden's performance (possibly Biden being decent and foreign policy to begin with weren't helpful for Ryan). By the end I think he was more into it, more confident and coherent and quite charming - if a bit callow.
His biggest problem was that he's trying to sell a campaign that has complaints but very few actual promises and the one's it does have are simply incredible (a revenue neutral 20% tax cut :blink:). If Romney loses, with four more years experience, I think Ryan'll make a formidable primary candidate in 2016 - but hopefully so will Rubio, Christie, Jindal etc :mmm:
I thought Biden started strong, and Ryan looked a bit lost. Ryan seemed to get more comfortable as things went on, and Biden seemed to get creepier. I would call it about a draw.
On reflection, in a way this debate might have made it harder for Obama, because it sets it up for next debate, Obama really does have to come out fighting like this VP did.
Can he do it or are we going to see the academic, the professor ?
I think Ryan shored up his base just fine, but didn't move the needle for undecideds like Romney may have. It was a very Republican performance.
Biden hit Medicare and the abortion issue out of the fucking park, and that could mean votes in Colorado and Florida.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:42:53 PM
For myself I love Biden and his style, but I thought that was generally a brilliant performance. He's running in 2016 and I will try and illegally donate :lol:
Oh definitely not as in I shudder to think of him actually winning a presidency in 2016.
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 09:45:10 PM
Can he do it or are we going to see the academic, the professor ?
Seedy! You going to call mongers out for being racist?!
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 09:45:25 PM
Biden hit Medicare and the abortion issue out of the fucking park, and that could mean votes in Colorado and Florida.
I'm not sure about that. It was on point sure, but didn't seem emotionally moving.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 09:45:10 PM
Can he do it or are we going to see the academic, the professor ?
Seedy! You going to call mongers out for being racist?!
He's not an American. Don't care.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 09:45:10 PM
Can he do it or are we going to see the academic, the professor ?
Seedy! You going to call mongers out for being racist?!
:blink:
How is that racist ?
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 09:49:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 09:45:10 PM
Can he do it or are we going to see the academic, the professor ?
Seedy! You going to call mongers out for being racist?!
:blink:
How is that racist ?
Seedy said earlier today that the only people who talk about Obama's academic qualifications are those that are shocked a black person [clearly my term and not one that Seedy would use] can speak so eloquently.
I hate the line about Obama being professorial. I don't get that vibe at all.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:54:19 PM
I hate the line about Obama being professorial. I don't get that vibe at all.
But he's so articulate and well-spoken.
:lol:
QuoteTweets
13m Diamond Joe Diamond Joe @OnionPolitics
Debate after party @lexingtonrhino. You can touch the strippers if you've got enough coin.
17m Diamond Joe Diamond Joe @OnionPolitics
So what's the deal, any shit happening off-campus after this thing? #debates
21m The Onion The Onion @TheOnion
Biden Shares 20-Minute Post-Debate Kiss With Janna Ryan http://onion.com/SV60cj
Retweeted by Diamond Joe
Well the next debate starts now. Heller vs Berkley
I wish it was on the radio. It'd be more fair.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:54:19 PM
I hate the line about Obama being professorial. I don't get that vibe at all.
But then you got good vibes from Huckabee - so your vibe-o-meter is a bit broken. ;)
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:52:33 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 09:49:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 09:45:10 PM
Can he do it or are we going to see the academic, the professor ?
Seedy! You going to call mongers out for being racist?!
:blink:
How is that racist ?
Seedy said earlier today that the only people who talk about Obama's academic qualifications are those that are shocked a black person [clearly my term and not one that Seedy would use] can speak so eloquently.
Nope, your missing the point, his take on a political question is academic; if you go back and listen to the 1st debate, his answers are strewn with qualifiers, reasoned, at times uncertain positions on issues, because he's approaching the topic as an academic. The lack of certainty and gut reactions harms him as a politician and leader, it looks weak in the eyes of some of the electorate.
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 10:00:31 PM
Nope, your missing the point, his take on a political question is academic; if you go back and listen to the 1st debate, his answers are strewn with qualifiers, reasoned, at times uncertain positions on issues, because he's approaching the topic as an academic. The lack of certainty and gut reactions harms him as a politician and leader, it looks weak in the eyes of some of the electorate.
And some of the electorate would consider it measured, balanced and tempered.
I think Biden won because he had a job to do and he did it. He was supposed to be aggressive today. Yeah, the smirking and bullying turns off some voters, particularly women. But Obama already has that demo by a lot. So I think it was a strategic decision which he executed in maybe a little over the top way. Joe is not a sniper rifle, he's a shotgun. When he goes off, he hits everything in front of him.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 10:01:50 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 10:00:31 PM
Nope, your missing the point, his take on a political question is academic; if you go back and listen to the 1st debate, his answers are strewn with qualifiers, reasoned, at times uncertain positions on issues, because he's approaching the topic as an academic. The lack of certainty and gut reactions harms him as a politician and leader, it looks weak in the eyes of some of the electorate.
And some of the electorate would consider it measured, balanced and tempered.
I don't see that winning re-election, Romney/Ryan can say whatever they want to win, Obama has to challenge that and come out fighting; I don't see what you describe, as winning over the undecided.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 10:08:29 PM
I think Biden won because he had a job to do and he did it. He was supposed to be aggressive today. Yeah, the smirking and bullying turns off some voters, particularly women. But Obama already has that demo by a lot. So I think it was a strategic decision which he executed in maybe a little over the top way. Joe is not a sniper rifle, he's a shotgun. When he goes off, he hits everything in front of him.
Biden as shotgun :lol: Excellent description.
Yeah, the smiling and smirking was a bit much, and it tailed off substantially in the 2nd half of the debate as I knew it would. Ryan did some smirking himself, but while he didn't have the guffaws Biden did, it was more of a vacuous, freshly-tasered, Dan Quayle-like smile.
Quote from: mongers on October 11, 2012, 10:00:31 PM
Nope, your missing the point, his take on a political question is academic; if you go back and listen to the 1st debate, his answers are strewn with qualifiers, reasoned, at times uncertain positions on issues, because he's approaching the topic as an academic. The lack of certainty and gut reactions harms him as a politician and leader, it looks weak in the eyes of some of the electorate.
I'm not missing any point (or beat really). You mentioned Obama as speaking academically and Seedy said earlier that only racists make that observation. Pretty easy call out. :D
Also, in case it wasn't clear, I don't agree with what Seedy, self-proclaimed defender of niggers, said.
Ryan reminds me of Miles from Murphy Brown. Technically a grown man, but looks and sounds like a slightly dweeby adolescent.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 10:16:31 PM
Also, in case it wasn't clear, I don't agree with what Seedy, self-proclaimed defender of niggers, said.
:lol:
I prefer Lord Protector of Niggers, myself.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 10:16:31 PM
Also, in case it wasn't clear, I don't agree with what Seedy, self-proclaimed defender of niggers, said.
:lol:
I prefer Lord Protector of Niggers, myself.
Indeed, Whitey McRacist.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 10:30:56 PM
Indeed, Whitey McRacist.
Now, now. Some of my best former friends are black.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 10:32:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 10:30:56 PM
Indeed, Whitey McRacist.
Now, now. Some of my best former friends are black.
I just did a quick search on the use of that colorful and hateful term. For myself, 21 posts with only one of those (just the one just now) actually myself using it (the rest in quotes). In comparison, the lovely humanitarian CdM has ~150 posts with most of those stemming from him actually using the word. Makes you wonder.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 10:34:46 PM
I just did a quick search on the use of that colorful and hateful term. For myself, 21 posts with only one of those (just the one just now) actually myself using it (the rest in quotes). In comparison, the lovely humanitarian CdM has ~150 posts with most of those stemming from him actually using the word. Makes you wonder.
Multiple uses in the same sentence against Timmay should really only count as one use.
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 09:54:19 PM
I hate the line about Obama being professorial. I don't get that vibe at all.
But then you got good vibes from Huckabee - so your vibe-o-meter is a bit broken. ;)
If Huck was running Obama'd be finished by now :P
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 10:48:04 PM
If Huck was running Obama'd be finished by now :P
Dear Lord. :bleeding:
Now you're just being bitchy. <_<
Would you have me any other way?
Nope.
I have to say, that was a gripping debate. It was a draw, but it was an interesting draw to watch.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 10:51:21 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 10:48:04 PM
If Huck was running Obama'd be finished by now :P
Dear Lord. :bleeding:
Just think how boring that first debate would have been.
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 11:09:33 PM
Just think how boring that first debate would have been.
That's the thing about Huck: his nice guyness is positively creepy, and even scarier than a Mittens Unleashed.
Huck is sleazy, not nice. There is a difference.
Fun debate. Massive win for Biden and America.
Biden campaign slogans, from Conan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDrmMAH1hmg&feature=relmfu
Gotta love the "Undecided" focus group that MSNBC has on right now. Just as brilliant a chandelier of light bulbs as the ones in last week's focus group.
NO I HAVENT MADE UP MY MIND YET I WORK FOR A LIVING
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 11:38:51 PM
Gotta love the "Undecided" focus group that MSNBC has on right now. Just as brilliant a chandelier of light bulbs as the ones in last week's focus group.
NO I HAVENT MADE UP MY MIND YET I WORK FOR A LIVING
After the Nevada debate they had a three voter panel of undecided voters on our local station that aired it. I think they lied to get on TV because one was a legit regular voter (UNR student) but the other two were a lobbyist who lied about her party affiliation and the other was a dude from Alaska who can't vote here. :lol:
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2012, 11:09:33 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 10:51:21 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 11, 2012, 10:48:04 PM
If Huck was running Obama'd be finished by now :P
Dear Lord. :bleeding:
Just think how boring that first debate would have been.
Huck'd be running a lethal populist conservative campaign :mmm:
Incidentally brittle arrogance aside, I love this Biden clip from 1987. And it's still true of the Democrats:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D1j0FS0Z6ho
Quote from: DGuller on October 11, 2012, 11:17:01 PM
Huck is sleazy, not nice. There is a difference.
:huh:
This made me warm up to Ryan a lot, if true:
QuoteNaked, Tied-Up Paul Ryan Tells Staff He Can't Prepare For Debate Unless They Slap Him Harder
DANVILLE, KY—Lying fully nude with his wrists and ankles tied to the corners of his hotel room bed, an intense, sweat-drenched Paul Ryan reportedly told his staffers today that the only way he could prepare for Thursday night's vice presidential debate was if they slapped his naked, bound body harder and harder.
Sources confirmed the GOP vice presidential nominee had brought in a specially trained debate coach named Madame Renée, a fiercely conservative dominatrix dressed in a formfitting black corset and thigh-high pleather platform boots, to provide the preparation he requested, ranging from heavy paddling, to rope bondage, to discipline lessons, to employing a testicle-clamping device known simply as "the Humbler."
"Slap my face as hard as you can and tell me how much you want bigger government," the bound Wisconsin congressman is said to have shouted through gritted teeth as his aides recited Obama budget proposals, which he then rebutted with campaign talking points between screams of "more" and "faster." "Oh, God, yes, tell me what loopholes we have to close for our tax plan to remain revenue neutral! Tell me the loopholes!"
"Harder!" Ryan is said to have commanded, his body red and battered from hours of being struck with a studded riding crop. "Make me cry."
According to sources, Ryan then insisted that aides rake their fingernails across his chest and spit in his face while calling him a "filthy liberal slut."
Over the previous two days of debate prep, numerous fellow guests of the Sheraton hotel confirmed hearing alternating bellows of pain and pleasure emanating from the building's top floor, as well as what several occupants of the rooms below described as whip cracks, loud slaps followed by satisfied cries of "yes," and what sounded like the exact figure of the U.S. federal deficit screamed out in ecstasy.
According to sources familiar with today's session, after several hours of drills on defense spending involving handcuffs, a Wartenberg wheel, and a metal ball stretcher, aides moved on to the topic of entitlements, during which Ryan insisted he was only capable of retaining all the necessary facts and figures if he was treated like the "dirty little dog" he is. Reports confirmed that Madame Renée and various staffers then dragged the fully nude House Budget Committee chairman around by a leash on his hands and knees, repeatedly forcing him to lick their shoes and drink from the hotel toilet bowl.
"Choke me, please, Madame," the flushed, bruised congressman is said to have requested of the dominatrix as she tugged tighter on his slip collar while he stared at a chart showing the growth of the national debt under Obama's tenure. "Choke me until I'm almost passing out. Please, Madame, please."
"Tighter," he reportedly gasped, as his body tensed and arched from lack of airflow. "Oh, God, I love it! I love it!"
While noting the approach was unorthodox, campaign aides stated that Ryan's fact-retention and ability to maneuver through difficult questions had notably improved as a result of his close work with Madame Renée. In particular, staffers cited Ryan's strong response to being vigorously struck on the chest, buttocks, and inner thighs with a cat o' nine tails every time he mentioned the phrase "middle class," as well as being rewarded for answering health care questions correctly with the dripping of boiling hot paraffin on his nipples and anus.
Sources stated that following a busy and painful day of preparation, the vice presidential nominee spent several hours winding down by putting on a large diaper, suckling from an oversized baby bottle, and insisting that various staff members cradle him in their arms.
"Before the Republican National Convention, we must have slapped Paul's entire body with long wooden switches and thick leather straps for five straight hours, and he gave a great speech," Ryan spokesman Brendan Buck said in a phone conversation during which the congressman could be heard in the background grunting through a ball gag in what was reportedly a combination of pain and pleasure. "I can't tell you how this works or why he does it, but one thing's for sure, he really made a lot of progress on foreign policy after all our female staffers repeatedly kicked him in the scrotum with the points of their shoes."
"If we run through his body-language drills one more time, really double down on our position on women's health issues, and attach electrodes to the glans of his penis as he has requested, I genuinely believe there's no stopping him in tomorrow's debate," Buck added. "Provided of course he doesn't suffer any serious injury of some kind."
At press time, several top GOP strategists and speechwriters were reportedly urinating all over the vice presidential candidate.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/naked-tiedup-paul-ryan-tells-staff-he-cant-prepare,29872/
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2012, 10:13:35 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 10:08:29 PM
I think Biden won because he had a job to do and he did it. He was supposed to be aggressive today. Yeah, the smirking and bullying turns off some voters, particularly women. But Obama already has that demo by a lot. So I think it was a strategic decision which he executed in maybe a little over the top way. Joe is not a sniper rifle, he's a shotgun. When he goes off, he hits everything in front of him.
Biden as shotgun :lol: Excellent description.
Yeah, the smiling and smirking was a bit much, and it tailed off substantially in the 2nd half of the debate as I knew it would. Ryan did some smirking himself, but while he didn't have the guffaws Biden did, it was more of a vacuous, freshly-tasered, Dan Quayle-like smile.
Biden's more a Claymore Mine he can hit friend and foe in a wide arc.
"Front Towards Enemy"
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc1%2FUS_M18a1_claymore_mine.jpg%2F300px-US_M18a1_claymore_mine.jpg&hash=5ba3d37f55e311225825d12ce66600b519fdee20)
Biden came off like the deranged drunk uncle. Ryan like a shifty snake.
I think the Stewart/O' Reilly debate was far more interesting.
So what I dislike in opinions on stuff like this is that "he won because his job was to destroy real debate and he did" and stuff.
That may be the case, but are we really supposed to be approving that? Aren't we (not 'we' the US of course, but citizens of democracies in general. Wait, that's not a "we" for me either. Anyways) supposed to decide based upon opinions and agendas? Then how can we celebrate the fact that the representative of our tribe acted like a jerk and destroyed any chance of a proper debate of issues?
Of course debates are media nonsense, but they're useful.
What do you think destroyed 'real debate'? What is real debate if not strong disagreement? Isn't that partly a good point of democracy? And though they weren't overly decorous towards one another (which is bad for debate anyway) but there wasn't any personal attacks. I think an engaging, watchable, lively debate is better for democracy than a placid one in which two technocrats discuss their least favoured tax deductions.
Do opinions and agendas matter a huge amount in a non-Parliamentary system?
'A proper debate of issues' is normally code for one that agrees with me. Whether it's liberals in the US bemoaning the horse-race, process obsessed media, or a Euro press officer briefing ahead of the Council, it's much the same: if only people would listen to reason (and charts! and policy papers! and think tank reports!) then they'd clearly agree with me.
Edit: It's one of the reasons I prefer Westminster style Parliament's, with two sides facing each other in confrontation, rather than a semi-circle. And it's been ever thus. There's a bit, I think in Phineas Redux, were Trollope describes the dislike that grows, naturally, from facing a man down as your opponent day-in-day-out. The leaders in that book were thinly veiled portraits of Disraeli ('..that unprincipled maniac Gladstone - extraordinary mixture of envy, vindictiveness, hypocrisy and superstition') and Gladstone (on the 'principles' of the Tory party 'all that Dizzy has destroyed').
Quotelively debate is better for democracy than a placid one in which two technocrats discuss their least favoured tax deductions.
Sheilbh, all things considered, I value your opinion and insight the most on this forum, but you have this romantic attachment to populist politicking which clearly shows you haven't encountered it in it's full force yet.
If you want rational decisions, you must have rational debates, no tribal shit-flinging contests. Yes, that means technocrats discussing numbers.
We must decide if we want society to consist of mature citizens or pockets of mobs.
I am not saying that this particular debate was shit-flinger vs. technocrat. I am talking in general terms.
Quote from: Tamas on October 12, 2012, 02:43:03 AMSheilbh, all things considered, I value your opinion and insight the most on this forum, but you have this romantic attachment to populist politicking which clearly shows you haven't encountered it in it's full force yet.
If you want rational decisions, you must have rational debates, no tribal shit-flinging contests. Yes, that means technocrats discussing numbers.
Thanks. I'm not talking populism - which is a style of politics which I think is essential. I just think democracy is better when you have sides with differing opinions that are sharply and engagingly argued in such a way that it engages people.
As I say I like a Westminster system which isn't terribly respectful, is confrontational and loud. It works here without leading to populist Balkanisation. It also works in Australia and New Zealand (David Lange :wub:). I think the Canadians are too polite for it :P
But I like the debates in America because it seems like one of the few times (Sunday Morning shows excepted) when American politicians actually have to argue with each other instead of being allowed an individual monologue where they can, to an extent, set their subject and their terms of reference and then reach their conclusions. That needs an industry of professional fact checkers afterwards. As Bagehot famously said of Congress 'it's all prologue and no play'. Far better is, as last night, if both candidates argue and stop one another from letting those fibs slip; and they both explain their points in comparison and in contradiction to each other. It means you have to deal with the other side's facts too.
I don't like the bits of the Scottish Parliament I've seen (semi-circular, no heckling, regular applause) :bleeding:
And I hate this coalition. The return to normal left-right, one party government will be a relief.
:hmm:
Quote from: Tamas on October 12, 2012, 04:15:08 AM
:hmm:
He often seems to prefer drama and spectacle regardless of whether or not that leads to good governance.
He doesn't like sports enough, so politics is a substitute.
In fairness, most of us are the same. Good governance is boring. Confrontation is entertaining.
I don't want to be governed by the entertainment industry, why would I want to be entertained by government?
I think Sheilbh's point is that entertainment drives involvement.
However, if somebody is so ignorant that he can only be bothered with politics when he can get a show and the chance to yell at somebody... well, I'd appreciate if he stayed away.
Quote from: Gups on October 12, 2012, 08:14:41 AM
In fairness, most of us are the same. Good governance is boring. Confrontation is entertaining.
I don't think so. I don't seek to be entertained by my government.
Quote from: Maximus on October 12, 2012, 08:17:39 AM
I don't want to be governed by the entertainment industry, why would I want to be entertained by government?
Then you should have stayed in Canada - POGG ftw!
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 12, 2012, 08:29:08 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 12, 2012, 08:17:39 AM
I don't want to be governed by the entertainment industry, why would I want to be entertained by government?
Then you should have stayed in Canada - POGG ftw!
Hey! :mad:
Like I said, find him (or me) a job, and we'll happily move up there. :contract:
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 12, 2012, 02:54:56 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 12, 2012, 02:43:03 AMSheilbh, all things considered, I value your opinion and insight the most on this forum, but you have this romantic attachment to populist politicking which clearly shows you haven't encountered it in it's full force yet.
If you want rational decisions, you must have rational debates, no tribal shit-flinging contests. Yes, that means technocrats discussing numbers.
Thanks. I'm not talking populism - which is a style of politics which I think is essential. I just think democracy is better when you have sides with differing opinions that are sharply and engagingly argued in such a way that it engages people.
As I say I like a Westminster system which isn't terribly respectful, is confrontational and loud. It works here without leading to populist Balkanisation. It also works in Australia and New Zealand (David Lange :wub:). I think the Canadians are too polite for it :P
You've clearly never seen a Canadian Question Period.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 12, 2012, 02:54:56 AM
I don't like the bits of the Scottish Parliament I've seen (semi-circular, no heckling, regular applause) :bleeding:
I figured the Scottish parliament would be debating whether or not to exterminate Clan Douglas and things like that.
Biden's main goal was to rile up the liberal base, and he definitely succeeded. Not sure how the rest of the country viewed it but I loved it.
Quote from: garbon on October 12, 2012, 07:06:12 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 12, 2012, 04:15:08 AM
:hmm:
He often seems to prefer drama and spectacle regardless of whether or not that leads to good governance.
That's Sheilbh's approach to religion, I noticed, too.
I gotta say I kinda agree with Sheilbh, though. I think public debates (and public speeches, in general) are not the best medium to present a complex, nuanced view of some issue - written word is a much better medium for that, while live oral communication is a better medium for condensed emotional messages.
The problem is that I think we are regressing from the culture of the written word towards the new oral tradition, where even things in writing begin to resemble conversations rather than a structured written document (tabloids, blogs, tweets, facebook updates etc. are all examples of this).
I tried to pay attention during this debate but got bored and eventually fell asleep.
Am I: Obama? :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on October 12, 2012, 10:58:42 AM
I tried to pay attention during this debate but got bored and eventually fell asleep.
Am I: Obama? :cool:
How could you get bored during that debate? You could be excited enough just looking at Joe's face for the whole 1.5 hours with your TV on mute.
Quote from: Count on October 12, 2012, 09:29:23 AM
Biden's main goal was to rile up the liberal base, and he definitely succeeded. Not sure how the rest of the country viewed it but I loved it.
Yeah. It was this exactly. I don't even know what Ryan said out there. Biden just distracted all attention to himself. I couldn't focus on Ryan at all. FWIW, my wife and my mom both thought Biden was a big awful mean bully. But guess what. Obama's already got the female vote by a large margin. This wasn't for them.
Quote from: Martinus on October 12, 2012, 10:00:44 AM
I gotta say I kinda agree with Sheilbh, though. I think public debates (and public speeches, in general) are not the best medium to present a complex, nuanced view of some issue - written word is a much better medium for that, while live oral communication is a better medium for condensed emotional messages.
I kind of agree. The written policy paper is useful complex, nuanced views and for footnoted, academic policy positions - not that any major party will ever do that. But public speeches are important because they're about engaging with the electorate and trying to persuade. Policies may be best described in documents, but the argument behind them needs to be made directly and verbally. It's like my view on most policy positions, they're really for the media who look over them and decide whether a candidate is 'serious' or not which is necessary to get a hearing.
Really great politicians are able to do that - Reagan and Clinton springs to mind. If you read Clinton's DNC speech it's dull and it's a bit heavy on policy details. Then, go and watch it. The only reason it works is his charisma. And I think it's always been so. Our great historic PMs like Disraeli and Gladstone were known for making hours of speeches in the Commons were their policy was explained, made relevant and argued for - not just laid out. The most famous off the top of my head is Gladstone's four hour budget when he was Chancellor - but similarly he re-launched his career, despite being a deeply literary man, with a barn-storming series of speeches on Bulgaria and Dizzy's weakness.
Personally I prefer debates and Westminster style because I think it clarifies issues, it forces politicians to deal with the other side's arguments and favoured facts - if nothing else I think it sharpens arguments. In addition I think it's fun (Julia Gillard's brilliant evisceration of 'sexist, misogynist' Tony Abbot most recently). I also think it allows for a different mood when necessary - Enda Kenny's speech on child abuse ('the swish of the soutane...this is a Republic of laws') or David Cameron's speech on the report into Bloody Sunday were brilliant because their bearpit style of the Commons and Dail became hushed and reverential. If the norm is that each member gets to go an stand and give a speech, in the way they wish, without anyone directly challenging them and they're heard in respectful silence then that shift of mood is lost.
In my view of the US debates the best ones are were they all act like jerks and are assertive and aggressive about their positions and the problems of their opponent's. Last night was great for that reason.
But to return to that clip of Biden I think he's entirely right and it was demonstrated during healthcare reform. The Democrats buried themselves under reams of position papers and thinktank reports. They stopped talking to the public. They stopped arguing the 'why' of healthcare reform and their opponents (rightly) took advantage. That's what well done speeches and debates are for, not calmly and rationally discussing all the options but for making an argument and it was entirely absent in the first two years of this Administration.
The debate was a draw in that it did not seem as any decisive event or moment that will shift the election, keeping in line with the inconsequence of past VP debates.
But as for determining winners and losers:
-The first third goes to Ryan due to Biden's distracting/self-defeating interruptions and guffaws. The old man has passion, but he overdid it. His performance probably energized the base, though. Ryan managed to answer Biden's 47% attack with a joke that got the biggest enjoyment from the crowd. He also showed calm and the ability to answer a wide range of foreign policy questions, including valid criticism of the Administration's preparation+response to the terrorist attack at Benghazi.
-The middle third goes to neither as Biden continued his antics while Ryan did a lot of unconvincing equivocating as well as getting messed up by Biden's interruptions.
-The final third goes to Biden, as he actually relaxed with the clown behavior, thus allowing the audience to finally take in his serious and emotional messages. In contrast, like a robotic dweeb, Ryan altogether stopped directly answering questions and instead ran through generic lines about how Romney is awesome and how Obama is terrible.
Both men did well for themselves at least in preparation for 2016.
Quote from: Phillip V on October 12, 2012, 05:24:41 PM
Both men did well for themselves at least in preparation for 2016.
I really don't see it as a realistic possibility for Biden; sure, people are talking about it now and Biden is all about how virile he'll be in 4 years when he's 74, but if Romney wins, there's no way a one-term veep would be considered a real candidate, and if they do win election, he'll happily retire to the countryside as a successful two-term veep, hitting the speaking trail and writing his memoirs.
I just don't see Joe doing it in 2016 either way, win or lose this year.
'You know, you don't have to decide if you want to be president. But you do have to decide if you want the option to become president.'
Shame Sam Nunn and George Mitchell are dead in dog years. They would've been great presidents.
I think Ryan's line over the 47% was a great moment for him. But I thought Biden's 'at least I alway mean what I say' was very effective.
I thought Biden's best moment was his answer on abortion. That may be the best answer I have ever seen a politician give.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 12, 2012, 06:26:55 PM
I thought Biden's best moment was his answer on abortion. That may be the best answer I have ever seen a politician give.
I thought it was very good: respectful, tempered, not a hint of hysteria or hyperbole, it was an excellent bridge between personal faith and public policymaking.
No Mario Cuomo, but very good.
I felt Ryan did a good job too, from his point of view. No dilly dallying about it, either.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 12, 2012, 05:44:06 PM
Shame Sam Nunn and George Mitchell are dead in dog years. They would've been great presidents.
Yep.
A heated debate between two Congressional candidates yesterday with one grabbing the other screaming: "Do you want to get into this?!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iERg3EgUMvE
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/a-debate-in-california-gets-physical/ (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/a-debate-in-california-gets-physical/)
Quote from: DGuller on October 12, 2012, 11:01:13 AM
How could you get bored during that debate? You could be excited enough just looking at Joe's face for the whole 1.5 hours with your TV on mute.
Bro, I grew up in the Delaware Valley. I've seen Joe do that shit dozens of times. It's classic Joe.
Quote from: Caliga on October 12, 2012, 08:15:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 12, 2012, 11:01:13 AM
How could you get bored during that debate? You could be excited enough just looking at Joe's face for the whole 1.5 hours with your TV on mute.
Bro, I grew up in the Delaware Valley. I've seen Joe do that shit dozens of times. It's classic Joe.
Yeah, when we lived on the Eastern Shore, since he was one of Delaware's senators, we got more coverage of him than Sarbanes and Chuck Mathias combined. Me and Joe's grin go back to frigging grade school.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 10, 2012, 05:10:10 PM
Ugh, another one. I guess I'll end up watching porno on Redtube.
A blonde chick fucked a girl with a black strap on. 7/10